My answer is simple. I can't afford the real thing so I buy cheap chinese replica.
P
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My answer is simple. I can't afford the real thing so I buy cheap chinese replica.
P
Well, I suspect I'd have gotten your answer more because for every person that hangs around here and contributes, there's four or five more that buy and disappear or return to buy again and then disappear, doing this over and over.Quote:
Originally Posted by rovin
I find it fascinating that you've invested in a lathe to make your own parts. When did you decide to do all this?
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Originally Posted by ikiestik
Succinct and to the point! Me likey. :)
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Originally Posted by Posh
You'd be right, but you also got me looking at the B&M Riviera, so it pays to drop in now and then. And a couple of weeks ago for the lathe, handy things they are!
Deep down I think everyone wants to pass the mythical AD test. If you were at a party chatting away with a guy or, god forbid a pretty girl, and she turned out to be an AD, could you fool them and more to the point could you feel relaxed around them and make normal conversation and normal hand gestures or would your sweat drip into your mouth and come out as Cantonese?
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Originally Posted by aksingh
Bwahahahahahahahaha! Cantonese? Bwahahahahahahaha!
Seriously, everyone does. And since the quality of certain replicas is superb, this has put the kibosh on ADs doing any authentication at the store level. Even the places that used to do them regularly stopped doing them, like Hermes; it was easy to spot a replica of the Birkin. But after OMAS, that stopped quickly. :D
The most notable watch brand that still does them is Patek Philippe, but only at their salons. They'll call you out fifteen minutes after you walk through the door.
Disclaimer: I don't make frankens, just wear very accurate reps.
The answer to your question is simple for me. I could buy a 5k gen every month and not notice. But, instead I could take a short position or buy into a security for the long run, or angel on a startup. If it tanks, i dont notice. If my return is exemplary then i do. There is absolutely no reason to spend money (which is the only way to really make money) on something that brings you temporary pleasure. The same applies to my automobile. Sure I could buy a brand new 997 or I could buy an 09 for a fraction of the price, freeing up capital to make more of itself.
If someone had decided to own 6 reps instead of 6 gens, 25k could have gone into high risk high reward dndn at 4 bucks and offloaded at 40 a couple months ago. That's 250k that will never go to a gen.
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Originally Posted by bobkat
Uh huh. This is what I expected to hear, at least from the more well-heeled 'Geeks on the forum. But everyone's responses run the gamut. I personally can't imagine, and this may be because I work in financial services, why anyone would wish to tie up capital in any kind of luxury goods especially if you aren't a high net-worth individual, since so many many luxury goods are very expensive to own and maintain. If you do not have financial assets, not including your primary residence, exceeding seven figures, you do not need to be buying any luxury goods.
Bob, I like your moxie. LOL:D
Only one watch comes to my mind where the cost of sourcing the GEN parts is reasonable compared to buying one (about $12K depending on the year and dial variant), the Rolex Explorer 1655. I have sourced the various parts, including GEN 1570 GMT movement, and the closest case set to GEN is Phong's. All parts sourced for a fraction of the GEN. Once put all together it's a watch I can proudly wear and still feel it's just as good as a GEN....and with the extra money I can spend it on my favorite wines!....and, it's a watch I can wear without calling attention...not like wearing a $25K AP.
Matter of fact...I believe some watchmakers use aftermarket case sets like Phong's to replace GEN case sets when they are too badly pitted and rusted from years of sweat and salt water oxidation. Rolex probably does the same thing, I doubt they have stocks of original 1655 case sets. The last time I talked to my local RLX AD, we were discussing vintage Rolex parts, and he mentioned having aftermarket vendors he could access parts from....so go figure. Many GEN vintage Rolex's out there may have aftermarket parts and the owners are probably none the wiser.
:-D. Completely agree with this. Complete waste of capital. Until its a fraction of a percent of total net worth it doesn't make sense. The only reason we buy luxury goods is because we like them. We like how it makes us feel. There is no logic. I know executives that walk into meetings where hundreds of millions of dollars of business takes place wearing a seiko quartz. A very successful attending I knew while I was training drove a Subaru impreza. The great thing about this hobby is that you can get the pleasure of the goods without the tie up of significant capital.Quote:
Originally Posted by Posh
That's an odd read for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkat
You could spend 60K a year on watches and not NOTICE (which implies a good deal of disposable income), but wouldn't do it because you could make more money with the capital?
What's the point of making the money if you're not going to spend it and enjoy it (at least some of it)?
You might as well set up simulated trading accounts and make millions on paper, (or you could use your skills to help other people struggle a bit less).
As for temporary pleasure, it's ALL temporary.
The Brinks truck ain't gonna' follow your coffin to the cemtery...
No but it will follow my children and their children's. Building wealth into families is what allows for innovation and success in our country. We backed a small startup that now does some very innovative things in their market. 60k when they were seeding is worth much more now and the capital was much better used than for 60k of gen watches or new car that have the smell. Obviously as I said once you reach a threshold of net worth the 60k becomes less of an issue and you wouldn't be looking at projects to tie capital in unless the play was Millions. Like most things, luxury goods scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by robbnj
And when I say fractional, I would posit no more than 10% (or a little less) of your income should go to these "toys." A friend of my fiance does some investing for a new member of the Ravens, I believe, and his contract is only worth about $1.5 million a year, if I recall correctly. He bought a little over $315,000 worth of jewelry. Now, I have no idea how his money is allocated or anything but that's already over 21% of his income in just baubles alone. :eek: He couldn't really talk the guy out of it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkat
This hobby could really have saved him some money because replicas for many things are really that good. But he's REALLY wanting to keep up appearances. :p
The acquisition of money in and of itself is an enjoyment for some, pleasurable even. :) And if you happen to like your children, it can allow them the luxury to do anything they choose. A watch, a dress, a bag or a car will not. I also agree with the teaching of others on how to build wealth. That's not a bad thing to do at all, especially to a spendthrift family member! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by robbnj
But like Bob said, luxury will scale with increase of wealth and income. No one is saying live like an ascetic and be miserable. A little denial now can reap grand rewards in the future. :cowboy:
Compound interest is a helluva drug!
Understood, but you stated that you could drop the 60K/year and never notice it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkat
This implies that the money isn't earmarked for family inheritance, specific needs (loan payments, education expenses), future investing, etc, but is "mad money" that you can spend as you wish.
If it's earmarked, then you can't really say that you can drop the money without noticing it (unless you were trying to "backdoor" the information that you make a lot more money than many people and have a lot to burn).
Differnent definitions of notice. The reality is all money made is earmarked. Just depends on the priorities. 60k to someone who makes 500k a year is not noticeable in the sense that it's not enough to affect day to day operations. 60k to someone who makes 120k a year effects the person at every level. Whether it be mortgage or loan payment or what have you. I understand your point, but in the end all capital is earmarked. There's no real "mad money". In my examples I'm talking about high risk high reward. So if I loose that 60k in the play, it doesn't effect day to day life. Most people have a diverse risk portfolio in that sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by robbnj
Ohh man, these kinds of questions just get my mind going. Now I'm a student so I'm not going to pretend to know how it is to pull in 500k a year but I would probably piss myself with glee. I really love the opportunity to hear (more like see) people that make that kind of money talk. Now I'm not saying that making a lot of money makes you a better person, I'm saying that being able to make that much money (or continue a family fortune by making investments) makes me want to listen closely to what you have to say. You have the info and experience I want.
Of course, rich people are the thriftiest of people, especially old money. Old money, and in my country that often coincides with being nobility, will save on anything they can get away with. At least here where the old families are still thriving of of their slave and plunder money from our golden age (1588-1702, 74 year before the foundation of your great nation) that's the case. Worn out smoking jackets, cheap bread, banged up old cars (still, I'll take a banged up old Royce everyday) and millions in the bank, gotta love it! They even look down on the nouveau riche with their flashy cars. Man I love old money and am so jealous of people that grew up in that kind of environment, being able to look back over generations of your ancestors and being able to say "I come from a line of great people that made something out of themselves (and that's why I'm better than you)". They usually don't say the things in brackets. At my university I'm surrounded by them, surrounded by baronet's and damsels's (or at least that's what Google translate is spitting out). Man am I jealous and I'm not sure I can ever stop this unhealthy longing to be a part of it...
Anyway...it just takes that kind of dedication to keep getting richer, not spending and spending and then loaning and spending all that and then defaulting on all your loans creating a global crisis. You have to save, invest safely, no need for risks, and then invest all the money you made again. It is a fail save plan, unless your country becomes involved in a huge inflation and it's basically become toilet paper, but a smart man (Bob) would have invested a good portion of his capital in something with an almost fixed value or something that can only go up in value like gold in these uncertain times.
Anyway, thanks for letting me read all this lovely information as well.
Now for my reason for buying fakes: I love the design that high end fashion seems to have a patent on. Have you ever tried to find a pullover that has not got one little icon ruining the simplicity? I've found one $1200,- at Hermes... Same with watches, I don;t want the crappy fat watches* that are all the hype these days, I haven't got the wrists for it anyway. I just love the understated elegance of for example a Rolex Explorer or a Patek Philippe Men's Grand Complication 5078P-001. So I've ordered the Explorer and I'm never going to be able to afford (or find a nice replica of the 5078P) so I've just keep that as a dream. I'm really bad at endings so I'm done now, I hope it is at least a bit of a cohesive story.
*No offence meant, I'm just using colorful language to enforce my point.
I've got 2 grand into this one. Why? Actually I just enjoyed the sourcing of the parts and having it built. A gen watch like this will set you back 7-8 grand, and you can't tell the difference on the wrist. As good as it is, it's still not a gen, and that bugs me. I'm probably going to sell it and save for a gen just because there's no substitute for the real thing.
http://img.tapatalk.com/a69350bd-6a53-8278.jpg
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Originally Posted by Posh
I've been surprised how my interest in this hobby has evolved. I too work in the financial industry with UHNW clients which is further compounded by living in Miami. My first rep was a Franken V1 HBB which I used as an experiment to see what types of reactions I would get from clients. Surprisingly, the rep opened up new conversation topics that my gen Rolex never did.
I began experimenting with different brands, Panerai, AP, etc and it's amazing (at least in Miami) how much it resonated. I've now become a timepiece enthusiast slowly teaching myself how to work/repair/mod my collection.
And the best part of all, the money for the gens I could have purchased has now fully funded the college account for my little girl :woot:
Thank you RepGeek community!
Okay Posh, here's something different which may appease your need to know. I think I may have nailed it but maybe I'm way off. I'll try to keep it short as I tend to 'get into stuff' a bit much sometimes. :)
People are pleasure seekers; we like what we like and seek it out in as many different ways/forms as there are people. Some ways are very simple - a walk through the park to small the smells, hear the birds, feel the sun on your face. Some are not so simple, like discovering new cures for disease. Whatever it is, the act of doing something brings pleasure.
Art is yet one of the many ways people find pleasure. To experience something that touches ones sense like nothing else - it 'speaks' to you - is very pleasurable. A person would necessarily seek out that same experience repeatedly over time to recreate those pleasurable feelings (get your minds out of the gutter, guys!) :) Say a person likes Vincent van Gogh's Starry Night, for example. Seeing that it's not possible to see the real one as we'd like, we buy a replica of the painting to enjoy at home at our leisure.
Now, does one buy a painting that's fashioned after/in the style of the real one but is noticeably off? Probably not. Does one contract a painter to paint one that's close - an homage - but again, isn't as impressionable as the real painting? Again, probably not, as neither of those elicits the same pleasure response as the gen. One goes out and buys a replica - a copy that looks exactly like the real thing!
Hence, the desire to own a (replica) watch that's exactly like the genuine article which brings pleasure to ones eye. I understand that a one-of-kind classic painting isn't the same as a watch but the concept is the same - a person seeks to satisfy their need for pleasure brought on by that particular form (a wrist watch).
The closer the copy is to the real thing, the greater the pleasure. I invite the poster who suggested that people who wear reps are 'trying to fool someone' and to 'get over it' to consider that there's more to it than that for at least some of us who choose to own very exact copies of haute horology time pieces. Are there people out there looking to fool people? Yes. Is that the sole/main reason everyone buys reps (and then attempts to modify them to be as close to the real thing as possible)? No.
I wear both. I enjoy both. I do, however, tend to only buy reps that closely approximate the real thing. It's all very personal - how we choose to enjoy what we enjoy. We do all seek pleasure, however.
Cheers,
Tom
Oh, this is interesting! I seriously had never considered this aspect of the whole buying fake lux goods thing. I am okay with a well-made fantasy bag (or watch in this case) but I can totally see someone else deriving joy from something that gets very close to the gen item, maybe only getting joy from the rep simply for that reason. Something that's 80% won't do for them. Thanks for enlightening me on this! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by repitup
I do it because it's a hobby for me.
I enjoy the chase of putting together a watch that would be nearly impossible to call out, and because of that it's very rare for me to buy a rep that can't be easily modded with gen parts. I will occassionally pick up a rep that doesn't actually 'need' to be modded (like my Ebel 1911), but I rather prefer picking out the best base model rep to build from and then go out looking for parts to finish it off.
I won't rule out buying a great franken that's already complete, but as others have said, one of the advantages of DIY is that you can do it in stages. Instead of dropping a grand all at once, you can spread it out over time and still have something to wear while you are collecting the parts. It's also more rewarding to know it was your build and not someone else's.
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Originally Posted by repitup
+1
I also buy/create reps that are closest to gen so I don't get called out while enjoying them. That would be embarrassing...especially because I wouldn't lie about it. For me, I try to avoid being called out and embarrassed.
Its so true in the real world almost no one pays attention to what watch you are wearing!Quote:
Originally Posted by kbh
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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?pp5lvv
For everyone in this thread - please do watch this video:
http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_bloom_..._pleasure.html
I think it is exactly relevant to our hobby and this discussion
Excerpt = "Why do we like an original painting better than a forgery? Psychologist Paul Bloom argues that human beings are essentialists -- that our beliefs about the history of an object change how we experience it, not simply as an illusion, but as a deep feature of what pleasure (and pain) is."
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Originally Posted by Ruprekt
I have a real one incoming soon, they're now high fives to low sixes. If you'd like some pointers as to sources, just pm me.
Men's watches are one of the only forms of jewelery that guys can wear. For me, it is about aesthetics and design. The most beautiful watches are costly. Being a fiscally concerned person, reps are irresitable. Who cares what others think. I don't. They can glob my knob if they are wondering about the authenticity of my time piece.