Baby, Give It Up!: Everybody wants you . . .

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Originally Posted by swissaddict

Still can't figure out what KC and the Sunshine Band has to do with charity. :confused:

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Not much. But he hasn't really worked in a while and could be considered a charity case. :lol:

I was thinking about the song for some reason and was writing about charity. The humor is that he would be considered a charity case for not having had any significant musical output in a while which means no income. I also thought that in regards to people who are less fortunate, they want you, The Haves, to help them by giving up your time or money. So it kinda works like that.

lol... kiiiind of a stretch, but I like your humor ;)

Here i was trying to research the band's involvement in charity, trying to read into the lyrics, etc. LOL

Giving should be judged on results rather than intentions...jm2c This is why I watch closely the charities that I give money too.

For me, my time and experience is the most valuable item I have to give.

The greatest gift I was ever given was the ability to change. The greatest gift I have given to those around me .... was changing me.

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Originally Posted by 0002S

Giving should be judged on results rather than intentions...jm2c This is why I watch closely the charities that I give money too.

For me, my time and experience is the most valuable item I have to give.

The greatest gift I was ever given was the ability to change. The greatest gift I have given to those around me .... was changing me.

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I really like this sentiment. It's true, the fact that someone is getting help is the only result that should mean anything.

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Originally Posted by Posh

I really like this sentiment. It's true, the fact that someone is getting help is the only result that should mean anything.

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It's a fine line. One of the problems, as I see it, is that help is sometimes given when it wasn't asked for in the 1st place.

DDT and it's use on malaria in Africa is a prime example. What a "help" we were.

Nice post Posh. You always come up with food for thought. I donate to two main charities, one for animals and one for people. There are many great causes that need more help - Education, literacy, medical aid, post disaster rehabilitation, environment, habitat, housing....

Hey way to go kid! Did Father Bob call you about my absence in church this summer? ;) This is a good reminder to all, to pay it forward, give and be thankful. Thanks Posh. :)

Well I volunteer for the American Red Cross, and I have done the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation's Breast Cancer 3 day several times, since I lost my mother at an early age, so I tend to give a lot to Breast Cancer Research. As well as animal welfare groups..

Posh- you never fail to amaze!

Spot on

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Originally Posted by louisruby

Nice post Posh. You always come up with food for thought. I donate to two main charities, one for animals and one for people. There are many great causes that need more help - Education, literacy, medical aid, post disaster rehabilitation, environment, habitat, housing....

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Thanks, Lou! :)

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Originally Posted by R2D4

Hey way to go kid! Did Father Bob call you about my absence in church this summer? ;) This is a good reminder to all, to pay it forward, give and be thankful. Thanks Posh. :)

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He said you've been excommunicated so don't worry anything. LOL Thanks!

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Originally Posted by sfa437

Posh- you never fail to amaze!

Spot on

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Thanks, again, Sfa!

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Originally Posted by 0002S

It's a fine line. One of the problems, as I see it, is that help is sometimes given when it wasn't asked for in the 1st place.

DDT and it's use on malaria in Africa is a prime example. What a "help" we were.

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I guess it should clarified that if you offer help or someone asks for help, then go right ahead. If they don't, leave them be.

Great post!!!

thanks :)

Thanks Posh. I think this brings up a lot of good points. As someone already mentioned (and you replied), some charities "help" in ways that their recipients don't actually consider help at all. I am, i think, pretty generous with charitable contributions. . .but I always make sure I know exactly where my time, effort and money is going.

I also don't think Posh is bragging. . .but even if she is. . .so what? If what she's doing makes her feel good, I think she has every right to brag! If she donates money to a poor family in Africa I don't think they'll enjoy it any less because she brags about it.

I think you're spot on about always finding ways to "better" yourself. I'll replace "faith" with "understanding," though. I read training manuals, history books and biographies like some people read romance novels. I'm always so satisfied to learn something.

Only problem I have with the main post, though, is the Red Cross. (disclaimer. . .i actually have nothing against the red cross personally! i'm sure they're a fine, upstanding organization!) My grandfather was charged money for cigarettes and cookies by the Red Cross in WWII, while the Salvation Army gave it away for free. . .so I grew up being told all sorts of nasty things about them. . .LOL

-J

Interesting topic and post.

Here is my 0.02...

Charity to me has nothing to do with money, as most of the posts here have seemed to focus on. It has to do with a way of living, thinking, and acting in this world.

Money, of course, is important and helps to get things done. It can not be denied.

I use my God given talents and professional training to give back to people all over the World. I am also a believer in the anonymity of giving and volunteering. I'll leave it at that...

But I "give it up" everyday. You can be "charitable" in everyday life without spending a dime.

Go visit your elderly neighbor, hold a door open for the person behind you, carry groceries to someones car for them....Just do SOMETHING...

Something that makes you understand that you as an entity are really nothing and not any more important than anyone else, even Warren Buffet.....lol.

But you can make a change. Just make sure to start with yourself.

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Originally Posted by Rizing Sun

Something that makes you understand that you as an entity are really nothing

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?

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Originally Posted by mingus2112

?

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Originally Posted by Rizing Sun

Something that makes you understand that you as an entity are really nothing

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Mingus, I think what Sun is saying, and Sun correct me if I'm misinterpreting the what you intended, is that we are a part of something larger than ourselves, interconnected, and so not specifically special in one sense,"nothing," if you will, but special in something greater that involves us all.

Sun, is this kinda what you mean? :undecided:

http://usera.imagecave.com/davem/JesusFChrist.gif

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Originally Posted by Posh

Mingus, I think what Sun is saying, and Sun correct me if I'm misinterpreting the what you intended, is that we are a part of something larger than ourselves, interconnected, and so not specifically special in one sense,"nothing," if you will, but special in something greater that involves us all.

Sun, is this kinda what you mean? :undecided:

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Precisely. The opposite of nothing, even.

May I quote...

"The spiritual being knows that we are all connected, and he is able to see the fullness of God in each person with whom he makes contact. This sense of connection eliminates much of the inner conflict that the non-spiritual being experiences as he constantly judges others, categorizes them according to physical appearances and behaviors, and then proceeds to find ways to either ignore or take advantage of them for his own benefit."

As one of my favorite author's puts it.

http://www.innerself.com/Spiritualit..._spiritual.htm

Also, remember his other quote I love...

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience."


:love:

Now go GIVE IT UP people...

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Originally Posted by Rizing Sun

Precisely. The opposite of nothing, even.

May I quote...

"The spiritual being knows that we are all connected, and he is able to see the fullness of God in each person with whom he makes contact. This sense of connection eliminates much of the inner conflict that the non-spiritual being experiences as he constantly judges others, categorizes them according to physical appearances and behaviors, and then proceeds to find ways to either ignore or take advantage of them for his own benefit."

As one of my favorite author's puts it.

http://www.innerself.com/Spirituality/becoming_spiritual.htm

Also, remember his other quote I love...

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience."


:love:

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I get this line of thinking's appeal, really. And I definitely understand the psychological attraction that some people have to the whole "New Earth"/Eckhart Tolle-like doctrine, and it's sociological impact stemming from the ideas. But it's basis is not in traditional Judaic/Christian tenets so much as it stems from what you "feel," an amalgmation and appropriation of many religions almost. How do you, personally, reconcile that with what the Torah or Bible teaches about our connection with G-d and each other?

I don't believe in a spiritual being whatsoever, but instead feel lucky to have "won the lottery of life." That is the way that I feel connected to my fellow human beings. The world is small today thanks to technology. What this means is that the entire world is a single community. . .

The reason we've survived as a species is because we've matured enough to recognize those in need and help our fellow humans. This is why "survival of the fittest" no longer applies. Those of us who are more fit than others have a RESPONSIBILITY to help others. Now. . .like others have already said in this thread. . .that does NOT have to be by joining Habitat or donating substantial amounts to the Red Cross. Simple everyday things are what's most needed.

just my $0.02

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Originally Posted by Posh

I get this line of thinking's appeal, really. And I definitely understand the psychological attraction that some people have to the whole "New Earth"/Eckhart Tolle-like doctrine, and it's sociological impact stemming from the ideas. But it's basis is not in traditional Judaic/Christian tenets so much as it stems from what you "feel," an amalgmation and appropriation of many religions almost. How do you, personally, reconcile that with what the Torah or Bible teaches about our connection with G-d and each other?

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This could be a great topic for another thread.

I think the spiritual matters that Tolle, Dyer and the likes (Chopra), transcend any traditional religious beliefs and focuses on the common spiritual law that governs all. Whatever or whoever you would like to call "it". Maybe it sounds very "New Age-y" and a little "just smile and it'll all be OK..."

It's stimulating reading.

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Originally Posted by mingus2112

I don't believe in a spiritual being whatsoever, but instead feel lucky to have "won the lottery of life." That is the way that I feel connected to my fellow human beings. The world is small today thanks to technology. What this means is that the entire world is a single community. . .

The reason we've survived as a species is because we've matured enough to recognize those in need and help our fellow humans. This is why "survival of the fittest" no longer applies. Those of us who are more fit than others have a RESPONSIBILITY to help others. Now. . .like others have already said in this thread. . .that does NOT have to be by joining Habitat or donating substantial amounts to the Red Cross. Simple everyday things are what's most needed.

just my $0.02

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Now, you've piqued my curiousity! Under your belief system, why do I or anyone else in a better social or financial position have a "RESPONSIBILITY," as you say, to help anybody in disadvantaged position?

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Originally Posted by Rizing Sun

I think the spiritual matters that Tolle, Dyer and the likes (Chopra), transcend any traditional religious beliefs and focuses on the common spiritual law that governs all. Whatever or whoever you would like to call "it". Maybe it sounds very "New Age-y" and a little "just smile and it'll all be OK..."

It's stimulating reading.

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What are these common spiritual laws that governs us all? I guess it's kind of tied into the question above. I'm genuinely interested in understanding your point of view and how it relates to giving or NOT giving of anything of yourself.

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Originally Posted by Posh

Now, you've piqued my curiousity! Under your belief system, why do I or anyone else in a better social or financial position have a "RESPONSIBILITY," as you say, to help anybody in disadvantaged position?

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Well by saying "your belief system," you pointed something out to me. Let me backtrack a little first and apologize. Sometimes, when in a discussion, we tend to say things we don't necessarily mean to make a point. I just did that. What I should have said is: "I feel like I have a responsibility to. . ."

As to why I feel that way. . .think of the world as one big corporation. Sure, not everyone fills his/her weight, but nobody likes those guys. I share my office with a guy who makes $80,000 and does nothing but listen to music and chat online. Maybe a corporation is a bad example, but i'm having trouble putting it into words. In that example, though, perhaps that person can skate by just fine now. . .but what happens when the company fails not only because of his lack of work, but because others in the company couldn't keep up with their work? Then he's out of a job and the company fails. I'm not saying that society will fail if you don't help people. . .but maybe you can extrapolate what i'm trying to say from that.

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Originally Posted by mingus2112

Well by saying "your belief system," you pointed something out to me. Let me backtrack a little first and apologize. Sometimes, when in a discussion, we tend to say things we don't necessarily mean to make a point. I just did that. What I should have said is: "I feel like I have a responsibility to. . ."

As to why I feel that way. . .think of the world as one big corporation. Sure, not everyone fills his/her weight, but nobody likes those guys. I share my office with a guy who makes $80,000 and does nothing but listen to music and chat online. Maybe a corporation is a bad example, but i'm having trouble putting it into words. In that example, though, perhaps that person can skate by just fine now. . .but what happens when the company fails not only because of his lack of work, but because others in the company couldn't keep up with their work? Then he's out of a job and the company fails. I'm not saying that society will fail if you don't help people. . .but maybe you can extrapolate what i'm trying to say from that.

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Problem is the guy you're talking about who does nothing will probably prosper and the hard working folks will not. It's an unfair world and effort never brings its fair share of rewards. As a wild example, there was a case in the UK where a rapist in jail won millions on the national lottery. Makes one wonder about God's purpose.... His victim was trying to get reparation now he could afford it but I'm not sure she succeeded, maybe it's ongoing but I know she had one hell of a legal battle on her hands because of the time that had passed. He prospered, his victim suffered even more.

Do we have, or should we feel, a responsibility to our fellow humans? It's a good question but where do you draw the line, unless you become a buddhist where all life is sacred. I guess in the end it's a personal choice. I have to say as I get older the "charity begins at home" tenet holds sway. I would rather give to a homeless person living on the street in London than to someone in Africa, India, or wherever. Don't know why this should be, but it is the way I feel.

Now I was critical of Posh earlier on for "boasting" about her charitable exploits, but what I was forgetting was the difference between the UK and the US. In the UK we are much more reserved about such things to the extent that someone posting what Posh did would be considered to be "blowing their own trumpet" and I genuinely found it uncomfortable. However, the US way is different and more open, particularly about finance, I should have remembered that.

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Originally Posted by Brightlight

Problem is the guy you're talking about who does nothing will probably prosper and the hard working folks will not. It's an unfair world and effort never brings its fair share of rewards. As a wild example, there was a case in the UK where a rapist in jail won millions on the national lottery. Makes one wonder about God's purpose.... His victim was trying to get reparation now he could afford it but I'm not sure she succeeded, maybe it's ongoing but I know she had one hell of a legal battle on her hands because of the time that had passed. He prospered, his victim suffered even more.

Do we have, or should we feel, a responsibility to our fellow humans? It's a good question but where do you draw the line, unless you become a buddhist where all life is sacred. I guess in the end it's a personal choice. I have to say as I get older the "charity begins at home" tenet holds sway. I would rather give to a homeless person living on the street in London than to someone in Africa, India, or wherever. Don't know why this should be, but it is the way I feel.

Now I was critical of Posh earlier on for "boasting" about her charitable exploits, but what I was forgetting was the difference between the UK and the US. In the UK we are much more reserved about such things to the extent that someone posting what Posh did would be considered to be "blowing their own trumpet" and I genuinely found it uncomfortable. However, the US way is different and more open, particularly about finance, I should have remembered that.

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You're right. It IS an unfair world. I also agree with you 100% about charity beginning at home. It's hard to express this without sounding like you only care about people close to you. For example: My sister works for some religious group out in Arizona where she lives. It's on the college campus that she went to. They work with these college kids and their big "thing" a few times a year is getting on a bus and heading down to Mexico to fix houses for people. Now, i'm not denying that she's doing good. . .she certainly is. . .but the big joke around the dinner table was to picture all of these college kids in DOWNTOWN PHOENIX getting on a bus to Mexico. . .while passing up all the homeless people. . .walking around them. . .pretending they don't exist.

The example of my sister brings up another point. Not sure how on topic it is. . .so i'll keep it short. I think Posh's original post was/is important and we should get back to that. . .

So on that last example of my sister's "mission trip," they head down to Mexico and happily fix houses. . .talk to the people about life. . .maybe throw a few God this and God that's in there. . .but they're pretty respectful (from what she tells me). So that's fine. On the other hand, when they DO provide help to the needy in the community, it's always something of a "bring them to church" type of deal. You come to bible study, and you get a free meal.

That's what I do NOT consider charity. They're using charity to bait people into something.

So back to Posh's post. . .I think those organizations that she mentioned (Habitat, anyway) are VERY great things to get involved in. As far as WHAT to get involved in, here's my view:

Donations only: If you don't have the time to donate and just want to give money, the Salvation Army is the way to go. I forget the actual figure, but the Red Cross's operating costs are a LOT higher. More of your money will end up doing good for someone with the Salvation Army.

Time: If you want to get involved, the Red Cross or Habitat for humanity are the way to go. Both organizations make great use of their volunteers and you can actually get out there and do good for some people.

Finally, I think whether you would like to admit it or not, "feeling good about it" is an important part of being "charitable."

-James