Sorry as suckers. Posh is a man.
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Sorry as suckers. Posh is a man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kollektor
I am a HUGE Dr. Laura fan. I even got a signed copy of Woman Power when she came to Towson with her one-woman show. My parents listened to her all while I was growing up and I listen to her now. At the end day, no matter what, this woman makes sense and is just plain right. That's how I feel. I have some of her books (I DO recommend The Ten Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives and Stop Whining, Start Living, and listen to her via Podcast. The funny thing about this is my mom likes her but can't really say so around certain colleagues because she's a polarizing figure. Likewise with certain ones of my friends. But I know good sense when I hear it and heed her advice. Someday, I will be my kids' mom.
I also got her book The Ten Stupid Things Couples Do To Mess Up Their Relationships. That was an eye opener because I found out I was doing those things and didn't even realize it, sabotaging my own relationship. The things I didn't quite understand when heard her show as a kid, I thoroughly understand now.
As far as people's thoughts on Dr. Laura, some people think women are supposed to be weak, opinionless, inarticulate, stupid, seen and not heard. And if a woman challenges these stereotypes and societal "norms," she risks getting attacked for it. Everytime. Even online.
Like I said, I have seen my parents go through things but come through them, together. It's wasn't always blissful. Marriage, like anything, takes some effort. My mom said, "We didn't always LIKE each other, but we always loved each other." That has really stuck in my head. It's really so simple. We don't like people, but there are other things to really consider in equation, like love, respect, shared values, character and all that other stuff that makes a successful relationship really work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Penguin
But it's also all about selecting the proper person. People these days, from what I see, do NOT take the time to evaluate the suitability of a person for a long-term relationship.
These guys at No Marriage should read probably read The Ten Stupid Things Men Do To Mess Up Their Lives. If it's packed with half the information in Ten Stupid Things Women Do, most of their problems should be on the way to being solved.
Men are from Earth, Women are from earth. Deal with it.
:)
:DHey, Cynical, knock it off. :D He says he didn't honestly know and I believe him. We can't all be perfect, like me. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Kollektor
I'm a certified financial geologist and I didn't know the Black Card was made out of titanium until recently. Do you what that does to my self-esteem? I'm ashamed of this but I'm amongst friends.
Do you know who had to tell me? Luman. You try living with that on a daily basis. :eww:
Joewatch - you do realize I'm just taking the piss out of you. I've always been a troublemaker. If we can't stir things up once in a while on a watch forum, then what do I really have to live for? My neurosurgeon assures me that it's just the effects of the labotomy combined with years of isolation and electroshock. I recall having this problem back in grade school when I would set my peers alight and then spray them with a fire extinguisher. So my apologies...
Koll.. I say, let him burn a while... or we should tag up and I'll take over.. :D ~ximQuote:
Originally Posted by Kollektor
P.S... the next GTG will be at your house!.. tell your wife
My grandfather always said that about him and my grandmother. When he had all of his heart issues back in the mid '80s, my grandmother never left his side. When my grandmother got cancer and eventually died in the early 90s, HE never left HER side. After her death I really met a different man. I've never seen someone so devastated. Keep in mind that these people knew eachother for about a month before they got married.Quote:
Originally Posted by Posh
When I looked to my parents, I always saw two people without much in common. My mother likes to travel and my father just liked to stay in. My mother loved to play golf and my dad liked to watch TV. My dad just died this past June from Leukemia. It was a year and a half long battle in which my mother had to drive him 80 miles to the hospital 3 to 5 times a week. THAT's love. Sure they could still have that relationship without marriage, but marriage is a statement of that love that they wanted to make.
I've been with my wife since March of 1999 (she was 18 at the time and I was 20) and we just got married this past October. Her sister said it the best in her maid of honor speech when she said: "I've never known two people who can be together for so long and STILL be so excited to see eachother." Sure, we'd have that without marriage, but what an exciting process it was to go through! We had a party with our friends and family. . .honeymoon in Italy. . .she now carries my last name (which she had been practicing writing for years!). It was just an exciting thing to go through. Sure, it's not for everyone, but it certainly hasn't failed.
Perhaps what has to happen is change. 50 years ago people got married without thinking things through and then just stuck through it. Sure, marriage will be hard sometimes, but you can make it easier by being sure you're with the one who you want to be with. My wife and I pretty much grew up together since we got together so young, so we're closer than most.
LAST THING. . .
Why does there always have to be a tangent when god is mentioned? I think Posh did just fine in stating what works for her and even saying "it's not for everyone."
-J
The problem with marriage is it is born out of being in love/lust which is a hormone induced state of temporary insanity. If you come out of this six months or a year later and find you actually are friends, like each other, love each other (as opposed to being in love) and are compatible, you've hit the jackpot. Obviously this also applies to couples who live together without getting married. If however you don't basically like each other, you have a real problem. Now I am no great expert in marriage having failed twice (the second continues for the sake of children and financial reasons) but there really was no logic to either time I got married. Had I been fully sane I would not have married the people I did. This is no reflection on either of them but a reflection on the fragility of human relationships and people's ability to choose wisely while under the influence of mind altering substances (for such the scientists agree is what love is). There probably is a lot to be said for the old fashioned long engagement.
Do I regret all these wasted years? You bet I do. One day you suddenly realise you're getting old, life is not a rehearsal and you've screwed it up. Not a nice feeling at all.
Well, engagements never used to be really long. I think that's a more modern occurrence than recent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightlight
You have an old-fashioned marriage otherwise. You got together for love. Now, you stay together for the children and financial reasons. Is it glamorous? No. But you're committed to it; I think that's great, at least. Divorce is DEVASTATING to children, even adult children. Studies show that having unmarried parents does as much damage psychologically as having divorced parents. A former co-worker said the thing you learn after divorce and remarriage is that all you get is new problems. She was husband three but couldn't stand him most times. She said she just learned to deal with it because the problems don't disappear, they just become different. I thought that was hilarious but also sage words.
I remember once my parents thought about divorcing, well before my father's heart attack, and the minute I was told about itI was crying and begging my dad and mom not to do it. They told me first before they told my sister, which I'm glad about because she never knew how close we came to being like so many of our friends with two ridiculous households to be shuttled back and forth from. It was so scary for me. I called every relative in my mother's address book and was crying to them to come and make them work it out. My grandmother said everything would work out and it would be okay; she told me they would never divorce and I didn't believe her. I told her they seemed serious. She said give them time and they would work it out because they had strong roots. Bubbe was right.
Eventually, they realized no one else would want them so they decided to stay together. LOL Seriously though, they worked it out and are stronger than ever.
Wow, really black and white options in this poll...
I think marriage suits some very well; the commitment, stability, intimacy, cohabitation, and other elements of marriage are keys to happiness for some people. On the other hand, marriage can also be a frustrating experience of smothering and co-dependence for others... And for some, marriage is simply not practical, or even not of interest.
Bottom line is that marriage is good for some, but not for all. Some are happier in marriage, some are happier without. And the dynamics of healthy and satisfying marriages are varied-- it's silly to think there are strict rules about what a marriage 'should' be like.
If you want to get married -- get married. If you want your marriage to be a certain way -- make it that way. If you don't want to get married -- don't get married. What more is there to discuss?
Marriage
I allways love the 'oneliner' a friend of mine came up with.........
'Just find someone you absolutely hate and buy them a house - and cut out all those wasted years'
.
LOL. Good one, Reg.
Well it's loyal, logical even, but great? Not even hardly;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Posh
I agree about divorce being devastating for children but there is an argument that says if the parents are constantly arguing and sniping at each other, divorce is kinder in the long run and has a less drastic effect on the children. Kinda like getting a sick dog put to sleep. It's chosing the best of two evils I guess.
But you know when you're not happy in your marriage, even if it's semi comfortable like an old jersey with holes in it, you're not happy. And that eats away at you, particularly as you get older, just as the jersey lets in the cold. (And how's that for rustic down home sagacity!)
I have no problem with marriage per se, just wish there was a better way to ensure compatibility than luuuurve.
Wow- can't believe I missed this thread somehow.
I've been married 20 years, two months and two days as of right now.
She's been with me through thick and thin. We've been moderately wealthy, dead broke and every step in between. We've lived in basement studio apartments and 400,000 dollar homes. She loved me when I was a college student, an Army Private and a Postal worker. She helped me get to where I am now- without her I would have no direction. She is my eddy in the tempest that is life on this rock.
She has given me the light of my life, my reason for being- my son.
She has been there to help me when I have been shot, stabbed and blown up. She's bathed me, changed bandages and held my hand when various pins, screws etc were pulled out of various appendages.
She's cooked my food, washed my clothes and cleaned my house.
She is my best friend, my lover, my partner in crime, my hero and my soulmate.
All this from some w*ore? I think not.
Marriage is definitely not dead- it is alive and well in my home.
I believe the world is a complicated place. I believe we are all looking for something, but frequently we are all looking for different things.
I've been through several relationships. When I was looking to settle down while working at Boeing with great pay, the young lady I saw was doing triathalons, riding 50 miles for fun, and looking for someone to enjoy those rides with.
I've never been overly motivated by money, despite enjoying vacations and the relaxation they offer. But without money, it becomes very hard to enjoy yourself, meet people, or even go out for dinner.
I actually may have known my soul mate when I was in 2nd grade. We both had blonde hair, we spent nearly every moment together. We talked, we ran, we did what kids do. But when her family moved to North Dakota, her father taking a job back there, I never got a number, there was no e-mail, and I never saw her again.
More often then not as I got older, I didn't know when women were hitting on me. I look back and wonder what the hell I was thinking, but reflect that I wasn't that interested in most of them anyway. And the ones that wanted a quick fling since, well... I wasn't that interested in them, or I'd have hoped for more than just a quick thing.
I just finished watching Pretty Woman for the first time in YEARS. Two people, meeting on the street, and end up finding true love. Does that really happen? Can it? I'd like to think so. I've been a hopeful romantic most of my life. And while I didn't know Louis Vuitton from a Birkin until about a month ago, I guess you *can* teach dogs new tricks... :D
This dog is happy for those who have met their match, sad for those who haven't, and hopeful all our hopes are just a chance meeting from happening. But we must be positive and hopeful, for to miss our chance because of a bad day... do we really want that to change our whole life???
(And why didn't someone tell Julia Roberts LV is the shiznet, so she could get a bunch of AWESOME luggage while Gere was buying!!!)
A man who likes Pretty Woman as a romance? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by merkman
Okaaaaaay, women who like Pretty Woman I have a problem with ANYWAY; the only thing it does is give hope to hoes. I DO NOT want hoes to have hope. :D Every ho I know loves this movie. But most of those hoes are still single too. I say most because there seems to be at least a few stupid dudes who think a sl*t is better than having no woman at all, nevermind she's sleeping with men behind your back. And I don't care how smart you think you are, sl*ts are ALWAYS smarter than you. If you never hear another piece of wisdom in your life, take that with you. I learned that from wh*rish friends. Sl*ts are resourceful. :eek:
It's a love story?! That woman is a PROSTITUTE. She has sex with ANYBODY for money. A lonely, sad sack millionaire falls in love with her because, hey, who else can you get to throw oranges at your @ss who won't tell due to hooker/trick confidentiality.
I was still fun to watch though... :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Posh
Forget I posted anything.
I am fortunate to have parents that started dating in high school, and have been married for 46 years. Watching their relationship has also helped me form my two 'rules' for marriage.
1) I intend to only do it once.
2) Because of #1, it will take a very special woman to get me down the aisle.
Unregistered said it best ... I also use the "Can I grow old with her?" test. I actually use it long before marriage is even a remote possibility. I use it to decide on whether or not I want to just 'exclusively date' someone.
I've always been a romantic at heart, and I have no problem with making the committment. I have no doubt I will do it sometime, but have no desire to 'settle' just so I can say I've been married.
Have to side with Posh on the whole 'Pretty Woman as a romance' thing. I think it gave a whole generation of "hoes" the impression that all they needed to do was find a rich guy and all their problems would be solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Posh
Never ceases to amaze me how much attention I get just stepping out of my recently acquired XK8 in front of a club where the line of gold-diggers are waiting to get in ... and it's not that expensive, nor am I Richard Gere ... :D
Guys, let's keep it simple here. If you marry and stay married for fifty years, good for you. If you marry and then divorce, be a man and accept the financial consequences. Let us not draw conclusions from anecdotes, but at the same time we should not be so overly idealistic to the idea of marriage.
There is one undeniable fact about this whole marriage issue: it's a crapshoot.
Marriage is not a crap shoot. Craps is a crap shoot. But you are right about keeping it simple. The simple facts in this matter for both men and women are the same. You can choose someone based on a lot of different things, e.g. money, looks, their ability to make your eyes roll into the back of your head. But whatever the other criteria, I think three of those things must include someone from a healthy family background, good character and similar value systems to your own. That ensures the longevity of anyone's marriage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Penguin
People don't just get married and then divorce because the sky is blue. They divorce for reasons that could be seen well before the marriage but they refused to want to see it, thinking they were going to change or you were going to change them. If you take a chance on choosing someone based on ANY other criteria than these three simple tenets, your marriage is doomed to failure.
Agreed, but you still cannot deny that there are couples out there who have done everything you have suggested, yet still divorced. There are anecdotes to substantiate your claim, just as there are anecdotes to substantiate the contrary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Posh
There are no cookie-cutter solutions to succeed in this whole marriage matter, and you know it. I submit that there is no universal secret to succeed in marriage, and that alone would conclude convincingly that success in marriage is indeed a craphsoot.
Just what kind of marital issues are you referring to exactly? There's almost nothing that cannot be be repaired as long as the two individuals involved are COMMITTED to making their marriage work. If one person or both people decide that everything is "too hard" to work on (and I don't mean abuse or addiction situations), then it's going to fail. The media is subconsciously and consciously telling people that nothing is worth saving. That old TV isn't worth saving; that car is three years old and not worth hanging onto. Your husband pissed on the toilet seat. Don't put up with it. Divorce him. We are now at the point that even the people in our lives aren't worth trying to reconcile with because there is something better waiting for you at the club. That kind of thinking is destroying relationships in America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Penguin
Most everything I mentioned earlier one should look for in husband or wife are things you look for BEFORE you get married, not after. If you marry someone with YOUR VALUE SYSTEMS and a problems arises, you can work through it. If they do not have those values, your relationship will fail. If the person you married saw fighting, strife and divorce in their families, the seed is planted that at the first sign of problems in their own marriages they should leave. Anybody with issues going into a relationship is going to bring trouble at some point. Guaranteed. People don't even feel obligated to stay because of their children which is more scary than anything else.
I don't think there is any obstacle that cannot be overcome in a marriage, short of abuse and addiction. If you leave for any other reasons than that, especially when there are children involved, I think you're making a terrible mistake. But by all accounts of the media, there's something better waiting anyway so go ahead.
And for your information, it's not just women bringing baggage onto the plane that is a relationship because men have a matching set along with them too! It sounds very much like you are one of those men. Who hurt you or what did you see that made you so cynical and jaded about marriage or relationships in general?
Attacking the messenger instead of the message? We are not talking about my personal life or yours, so quit speculating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Posh
You do discuss a point that I agree on: success in marriage is a matter of mutual will. No ****. That is a very simple concept, but it is a folly to assume that all people act with those serious intentions. You cannot deny that there are selfish people everywhere, both men and women. However, men have every right to cry louder when they fail in marriage because they have lost more financially. The fact is undeniable that men make more money than women, and women have more to gain financially in the event of divorce. Given this apparent inequality between the genders (i.e., men making more money than women), there is little wonder why the ideal of mutual will would be difficult to attain. Conniving wives throwing fits at their husbands to get goods, divorcing wives suing to get half or more of the marital estate, etc.
A lifetime of bliss, "'till death do us part," is indeed a worthy endeavor and a fundamental part of life in general. Many have achieved that, we cannot deny. However, to stubbornly dwell solely on the ideals of marriage without any regard to the harsh realities of divorce would be foolish. Marriage is beautiful, yes, but divorce has its ugly side, too.
Posh,Quote:
Originally Posted by Posh
I have two points for you to consider, I am an Orphan for all intents and purposes, I had no family as a child to speak of, does that mean you think no one should ever marry me? I Don't think this is what you meant but that's what your statement says. I know a lot of people from screwed up family's or no family at all who turn out OK (don't punish the son for the sins of the father). I agree the odds are better with someone from a "healthy" family life but to write off those of us who didn't get that chance without ever meeting us seems a little harsh.
You also said "I don't think there is any obstacle that cannot be overcome in a marriage, short of abuse and addiction." You left off infidelity, you seem to have issues with that too based on your pretty woman post and no, infidelity is not an addiction. I think the heart of all the issues to end a marriage is trust. All kinds of things can lead to the trust going out of a marriage but once that happens its time to part ways.
Great posts BTW very thought provoking and informative.
I'm glad you don't think that's what I meant because it wasn't. I think you understand that I don't think you are not marriage material.Quote:
Originally Posted by painm8ker
Let's be real: someone or a group of someone's brought you up from infancy to adulthood. If you have no "traditional" family of which to speak, then your adoptive family has to give you your roots and hopefully they were good.
I left off infidelity purposely. I think a relationship can come back from infidelity, and in should in the case of children. To assume that all bets are off once someone cheats is sometimes tantamount to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I have some girlfriends who choose to stay with their husbands even after infidelity. Some people have basically good marriages and don't want to loose their 10, 20, 30 year marriages over a tawdry male or female sl*t. Some people do. I wouldn't be one of those people, quite honestly. I'm not an all-or-nothing person generally.
Pretty Woman I have issues with because I don't like to see prostitutes take wealthy men out of circulation. It's really a market share thing and territory thing. Let hookers have low-level middle management, not governors and CEOs. :D
I wasn't "attacking the messanger" and don't want to speculate. That's why I asked you a legitimate question that you can feel free to answer or not. Your viewpoints tend to skew one way towards the marital disaster end of the spectrum and I want to know why. People don't automatically discount millenia old societal instituitions without a reason why. If you do hold these views without a real objective or even subjective reason, your arguments hold no sway whatsoever. You're arguing the point just to argue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Penguin
I'm not ignorant of the "evil" other side of marriage, it just doesn't strike me as the prevailing majority or even minority of marriages, as studies typically indicate. This begs the question as to what you've seen or experienced that would make marriage seem like this unfettered jackpot for Jezebelian women and this downward emotional and financial spiral for unsuspecting, virtuous men.
And it seems like you're implying that women in these marriages you're profiling don't work and are just sitting around and waiting to divorce their husbands because they didn't want to be with them to begin with. There are just as many women who stand to lose out financially because they are well-to-do and the men they are with are unemployed or usually under employed. Some men, but not the majority men as feminists would like you to believe, make more than women but that is a balance that is quickly shifting. I know of a few friends with men who bring very little to their relationships other than themselves, which is fine for some people. Marrying these men would put them in the same position as any man that has achieved the same thing as they have.
Merk, I liked your post. Very touching about the second grade girl. Who knows? I bet she still thinks about you.Quote:
Originally Posted by merkman
As for hoes... Hoes need love too. Hey, everybody has a heart, right? Except for Poshy... That beating in her chest is just a cash register...
:D :D
This has been a great read :D
I don't think there is much "luck" involved with keeping a marriage going. I can't explain how I knew my wife was going to be my wife, I just KNEW it after a week or so.
As time went by, that feeling cemented itelf into reality a year later. Do we get on each others nerves? Of course. Do we argue? Hell yes. Do we love each other more with every passing day? YES.
I guess for each man and woman the reasons why it works or doesn't work are as individual as fingerprints.
As for Pretty Woman- I think the movie was mistitled. Julia's kinda homely :lol: Put Scarlett Johanssen in the lead however......... :D
I just got back from my wedding pics day.. we had the outdoors session and my day started at 9am till midnight :)
We had a blast and all i kept thinking was how I'd love to grow old with my man.. :)
But u know what the sad thing was. My makeup artist and my hair stylist were talking about divorces while doing my hair and makeup. I told them I did not want to talk about this and anyway
Thanks Posh for giving me more hope on the subject (LOL) and I believe that marriage is not for everyone but at least one has got to try right? You might end up in a strong marriage like ur parents.. or mine :)
God gave man the gift of fire
Man invented the fire engine
God gave man the gift of love
Man invented the institution of marriage ...
Whats worse?
Knowing that no one is interested in you
or
Knowing you can't get anyone interested in you
Result
this thread.
LOL... a bit harsh, Novesh! And maybe a bit simplistic, too. I think this thread is more likely a result of fear of abandonment issues related to some irrational and maladaptive presumptions about the way things 'should' be. So let's have some compassion and be a bit more gentle :)
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by swissaddict
compassion? quid pro quo...on that topic.
But you hit it on the head with abandonment, irrationality and maladaptive presumptions.
A possible need to be in the spot light? :rolleyes:
If marriage isn't for you, great! Stay out of the damn gene pool, PLEASE. :shh:
No, I think I'm good to go on that front. But thanks for caring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novesh
Admin EditQuote:
Originally Posted by Novesh
Posh, I wonder if he was talking about Emperor Penguin who posted the nomarriage site. He says, "If marriage isn't for you, great!" which makes me think he isnīt speaking to you.
I hope I am right about this...
Admin edit
Johng is correct, EP wasn't posting the right type of stuff, some of my comments were towards him.
Others were general statements not directed at anyone.
Reminds me of one of those young men in school, who just didn't know when to quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novesh
Not unlike the strapling here.
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I think this thread has run it's course.