They Won't Leave in the Night: Diamonds Are ForNEVER!

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Originally Posted by roflwaffle

@socaligurl

i think thats great actually

ive gotten into... discussions.. with girls i know, and most of them still believe theyve been 'shorted' if i dont go and drop X months salary on an engagement ring for a ring that will in all likelyhood only be worn during the engagement period

i think as a couple starting out, that X months of salary blown on such a thing is rather distasteful and could better be spent on other things (downpayment towards a house, better honeymoon, a 'family friendly ar', etc etc etc) that would add more to the marriage than a rock.

but, i'd say 98% of women see this as guys being a total cheapass and 'not really loving them enough' yadda yadda

or maybe i am just a cheapass..

besides 'social customs' (created by debeers) I cant really think of a single valid reason for the absurdity of it all..

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well, helps I'm NOT american and I never really knew about the concept of X salaries for a ring (how absurd is that?) LOL

BUT I like bling like any other girl and I don't want me or my future hubby to spend SO much money when we can buy a car with it :) or have a fantastic honeymoon, business tickets and all to our dream destination with that money for all that matters :)

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Originally Posted by elisiX

I have only skimmed over this thread but I intend on going back and reading it in full as I think this is very interesting but even more-so, I think its relevant to a situation I find myself in currently.

My mrs, Jacqui and I have been together for quite a few years and were 26 now. Jacqui has worked in the diamond industry for a long time and is a qualified gemologist. She now works in travel however during her time working for what I believe is the largest importer of diamonds in Australia, she was showered with gifts and so on from her employers over a number of years which included bracelets, earrings etc in excess of $25-30k. They pretty much thought of her as a daughter.

Anyway when we were 22 I think it was we got engaged. I went to her boss and asked her what she could do for me. In the end I walked out after laying down $14k for over $30k retail worth of diamond. Well I actually had a 2ct F/VS2 solitaire set in a tiffany knife edge ring and I think 17 smaller 12pt G/SI stones for a tiffany shared setting band to suit which I had made up. I was ecstatic to say the least. Long story short we split up a short time later and I was given my rings back which I sold privately (and made a pretty penny on after asking her boss if it were fine for me to sell privately rather then back to her). Essentially I took the 15k I made (on top of my investment) and put it into managed funds. Eventually I bought a place with the money and Jacqui and I got back together about a year after ending the engagement. I think its been about 3 years since we got back together now.

The situation - well we've talked about getting engaged again but i'll be dammed if I spend that kinda coin on a diamond again. I'd much rather spend money on our mortgage/lifestyle/savings however I guess im unsure how buying something 'other than' a diamond will go down. I know my girl - and I know she will ultimately be happy with anything I give her however she walks about with 80pt diamonds in her ears ffs. Ideally i'd like to buy her another 2ct stone (perhaps cushion or oval this time) but I might just get her to read this thread with me and perhaps it may open her eyes a little into the perceived value put on diamonds though this might be a hard sell. She's pretty big on holidays (now being in that industry) and we get incredible rates on flights etc. Maybe she would rather spend the 'diamond' money on a fantastic trip and accept the value and quality of these alternate stones.

Anyway - thanks for the info and listening to my waffling on. :)

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CONGRATS :)

And well, you should definitely let her know there is an option and it doesn't have to be a diamond to look like one :)

PLUS, does she know about you buying other reps? you could compare a FANTASTIC rollie rep with the gen and then tell her it's pretty much the same thing with the bling :)


AND give her the option of spending that money on a FAB honeymoon :) or upgrade her car
or whatever that makes more sense than a simple glittery STONE :)

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Originally Posted by amcogo2010

Yeah, I think Posh's post wasn't too focused, I just noticed somehow this thread was getting derailed with conflict stone comments.


I'm back to watches, cuz I'm not like good old davey, no bling for this guy. lol.

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Love the lively discussion here!

Cogo, I appreciate what you're trying to point out and I respect your defense of the diamond industry but I DON'T TRUST the people involved behind-the-scenes in the industry. When I look back further than even just recently, like over 100 hundred years ago and study what they did to other human beings for ROCKS, they will NEVER have my respect, my trust or my money in the forseeable future.

Your statement is a bit inaccurate. I urge everyone to read in TOTALITY what I write and don't skim as things like this get put out there and they aren't completely "focused" on my actual thoughts and feelings.

I stated right away that I don't think a ROCK defines how much I am loved. Which kinda IMPLIES that my man doesn't have to spend 18 months of his salary on an engagement ring for me.

Hell, he may not even have to buy me an engagement ring. He could be creative and get me Kicthen Aid stand mixer as I think that's not too bad a token of love. As long as he gets me the ice cream and pasta attachment sets with it. How can you not marry a man who spends upwards of $1,000 on a mixer for you?

:D

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Originally Posted by elisiX

I have only skimmed over this thread but I intend on going back and reading it in full as I think this is very interesting but even more-so, I think its relevant to a situation I find myself in currently.

My mrs, Jacqui and I have been together for quite a few years and were 26 now. Jacqui has worked in the diamond industry for a long time and is a qualified gemologist. She now works in travel however during her time working for what I believe is the largest importer of diamonds in Australia, she was showered with gifts and so on from her employers over a number of years which included bracelets, earrings etc in excess of $25-30k. They pretty much thought of her as a daughter.

Anyway when we were 22 I think it was we got engaged. I went to her boss and asked her what she could do for me. In the end I walked out after laying down $14k for over $30k retail worth of diamond. Well I actually had a 2ct F/VS2 solitaire set in a tiffany knife edge ring and I think 17 smaller 12pt G/SI stones for a tiffany shared setting band to suit which I had made up. I was ecstatic to say the least. Long story short we split up a short time later and I was given my rings back which I sold privately (and made a pretty penny on after asking her boss if it were fine for me to sell privately rather then back to her). Essentially I took the 15k I made (on top of my investment) and put it into managed funds. Eventually I bought a place with the money and Jacqui and I got back together about a year after ending the engagement. I think its been about 3 years since we got back together now.

The situation - well we've talked about getting engaged again but i'll be dammed if I spend that kinda coin on a diamond again. I'd much rather spend money on our mortgage/lifestyle/savings however I guess im unsure how buying something 'other than' a diamond will go down. I know my girl - and I know she will ultimately be happy with anything I give her however she walks about with 80pt diamonds in her ears ffs. Ideally i'd like to buy her another 2ct stone (perhaps cushion or oval this time) but I might just get her to read this thread with me and perhaps it may open her eyes a little into the perceived value put on diamonds though this might be a hard sell. She's pretty big on holidays (now being in that industry) and we get incredible rates on flights etc. Maybe she would rather spend the 'diamond' money on a fantastic trip and accept the value and quality of these alternate stones.

Anyway - thanks for the info and listening to my waffling on. :)

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Yeah, you are one of the few people that got the return on their initial investment on a diamond. So many people do not.

Hopefully this thread provides insight into these ethically sound and smart financial choices. If she cannot possibly have anything but a "real" diamond, give her a cultured one. And don't let her sell you on the fact that the earthen diamond took millions of years to make and thus has more sentimental (i.e. LOVE) value than a stone that took three days to make. I've actually had an argument with a girlfriend about that! :eek:

This should be stickied!!

For those who don't think diamonds cause misery-

These are photos taken by me personally in a "mining town" that produces an a$$load of quality stones for the market- legally.

Keep in mind that brownish-black stuff is NOT mud.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...37/Soleil2.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...37/Soleil1.jpg

Don't mean to offend with these photos, just see no real need to put a nice face on a brutal industry that overprices shiny pieces of coal. I have no love for DeBeers or their ilk.

Ashi all the way!

That was my point Posh, your post wasn't really focussed on blood diamonds, but the thread had random posts on it that I felt should be addressed. Not necessarily just your original post.


I meant to write it wasn't "focussed on blood diamonds."


I agree with the part about spending the money, that wasn't really my disagreement or clarification, if you will, since it wasn't really a disagreement, more just addressing various other posts made.

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Originally Posted by Posh

Yeah, you are one of the few people that got the return on their initial investment on a diamond. So many people do not.

Hopefully this thread provides insight into these ethically sound and smart financial choices. If she cannot possibly have anything but a "real" diamond, give her a cultured one. And don't let her sell you on the fact that the earthen diamond took millions of years to make and thus has more sentimental (i.e. LOVE) value than a stone that took three days to make. I've actually had an argument with a girlfriend about that! :eek:

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well, i believe he got his money back because he paid HALF of what it would have cost for the regular JOE :P LOL

anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only person thinking like this. :D

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Originally Posted by socaligurl80

well, i believe he got his money back because he paid HALF of what it would have cost for the regular JOE :P LOL

anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only person thinking like this. :D

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That stone must have been something. He laughed a short way to the bank and then left, came back, and laughed again but longer. LOL :lol:

can u imagine paying 30k for a rock and then have to resell it and only get half? oh wow.. that's how "priceless" diamonds are :P

sorry I derailed here :) just wanted to let u know I decided which ring I want and since btd takes 5 weeks I planned my purchase for october to get it in november.

tiffany reproduction with v6 asher 1.5ct :)

can't wait!!! :)

Socali - Thats fabulous, you'll need to post pics of your new sparklie :D

I thought this industry had been run into the ground by the diamond giants. Great write up and fantastic links. I'm single now, but when that time comes there is no way I'm goign with a gen. -Dan

Very interesting read and it is almost a taboo discussion among most people because of the "oh its not real" factor and that must imply that your "love" for me is not real stuff.

It is a shame. It is all for show anyway. A ring shouldn't define your love. it is a symbol but not the definition. Many women use the ring as a definition instead.

I plan to review the sites posted.

thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by socaligurl80

can u imagine paying 30k for a rock and then have to resell it and only get half? oh wow.. that's how "priceless" diamonds are :P

sorry I derailed here :) just wanted to let u know I decided which ring I want and since btd takes 5 weeks I planned my purchase for october to get it in november.

tiffany reproduction with v6 asher 1.5ct :)

can't wait!!! :)

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Yes, we must see bling as Mrs. H said. We're waiting with baited and envious breath!

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Originally Posted by cue003

Very interesting read and it is almost a taboo discussion among most people because of the "oh its not real" factor and that must imply that your "love" for me is not real stuff.

It is a shame. It is all for show anyway. A ring shouldn't define your love. it is a symbol but not the definition. Many women use the ring as a definition instead.

I plan to review the sites posted.

thanks for the info.

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Yeah, Cue, it is a bit of a taboo. Some wom en don't care who knows the ring's rock is faux. But many do and are all running around like their husband went bankrupt buying it. The fact that it is used as the definition most times instead one, of many, symbols of someone's love is pathetic. But we have society and DeBeers' slick 100 year marketing campaign to thank for that.

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Originally Posted by mrs-h-

Socali - Thats fabulous, you'll need to post pics of your new sparklie :D

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Thanks Mrs H and Posh!! well, november is a long way but I will post pics as SOON as I get that baby!! :)

If I remember right, you can get a few dead bodies, put them into a massive macchine and then turn up with a few precious gems.

Now we need some bodies and could make a fortune.

Anyone want to be a part of my Family

Did this win an award? because it should.

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Originally Posted by bvlgary

If I remember right, you can get a few dead bodies, put them into a massive macchine and then turn up with a few precious gems.

Now we need some bodies and could make a fortune.

Anyone want to be a part of my Family

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Now, there's a thought! We just need some transients or runaways and we'll be in business!

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Originally Posted by Saltine

Did this win an award? because it should.

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Really? Are you a judge? Because I'm more than willing to do what it takes to win . . .

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Originally Posted by Posh

Really? Are you a judge? Because I'm more than willing to do what it takes to win . . .

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I'm thinkin Wet T-Shirt Contest :p

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Originally Posted by socaligurl80

can u imagine paying 30k for a rock and then have to resell it and only get half? oh wow.. that's how "priceless" diamonds are :P

sorry I derailed here :) just wanted to let u know I decided which ring I want and since btd takes 5 weeks I planned my purchase for october to get it in november.

tiffany reproduction with v6 asher 1.5ct :)

can't wait!!! :)

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Oh I cannot wait for you to get it! You are going to LOVE it I am sure!!



I haven't taken my Asha studs out of my ears since I got 'em. 2ct total wt, E color, version 6 asha, martini setting

I'm in LOVE LOVE LOVE


(oh, and they go nicely with my shiny yachtmaster that I also have not taken off since it arrived!)

I've got my eye on a nice big 3 stone ring next...

credit: betterthandiamond.com

http://www.betterthandiamond.com/ima...artinipair.gif

Not sure if anyone has asked this question Posh, but what is your opinion on Moissinite?

My wife has a ring with a pretty good sized one that looks fantastic.

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Originally Posted by baghandler

Oh I cannot wait for you to get it! You are going to LOVE it I am sure!!



I haven't taken my Asha studs out of my ears since I got 'em. 2ct total wt, E color, version 6 asha, martini setting

I'm in LOVE LOVE LOVE


(oh, and they go nicely with my shiny yachtmaster that I also have not taken off since it arrived!)

I've got my eye on a nice big 3 stone ring next...

credit: betterthandiamond.com

http://www.betterthandiamond.com/ima...artinipair.gif

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I was wondering how those turned out! Is version 6 too blingy? I was curious about that but wasn't sure. But I trust Betterthandiamonds judgement because all their other stuff looks great. How do you like the v6?

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Originally Posted by Jackjo

Not sure if anyone has asked this question Posh, but what is your opinion on Moissinite?

My wife has a ring with a pretty good sized one that looks fantastic.

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I have mixed feelings on Moissanite due to the color and scintillation issues. It looks good, true, but it looks TOO good and that isn't even factoring in color issues that are present in a good bit, but not all, moissanite stones. But there's a reason for that and I discuss it briefly on page 4 of this thread. Here's what I said:


Selecting a stone [Asha] in the H and I range and maybe J range will give the stone a yellowish cast which would, depending on your job, totally pass muster. If it's a large stone, get the yellower colors so it looks as if you got a bigger stone but it's lower quality and thus less expensive. Of course, having an exceptional cut like Hearts & Arrows so it still sparkles will offset the color discrepancy. Don't get a large moissanite as that green [sometimes greyish-green] tint is crazy ugly.

The simulants we are talking about do not look cheap by any means. It would stand up at any cocktail party, Republican fundraiser or funeral you could possibly go to. Repping allows you to save money on things you love so you can buy things that are more important, like . . . more reps! I'm teasing . . . or am I?

And then I say this:

You may want to read a bit about the version 5 and version 6 Asha. I personally prefer the version 5 because it does not have the "optical layer" made of their proprietary compound that brings the refractory index up to about 2.5. Diamond is between 2.40 and 2.42. This layer increases the light handling of the stone. But it is no where near the insane RI of moissanite which is 2.60 to 2.69. But with that stone you want, version 6 is fine.

Moissanite is best in smaller sizes as accent stones, in my estimation, than as the center stone. The larger they get, the more obvious the color and refraction problems become.

Mrs. H, I believe, has photos her Asha/Moisssanite hybrid that I would consider ideal: Asha center stone and Moissanite accents. It's very believeable and looks great.

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Originally Posted by Posh

I was wondering how those turned out! Is version 6 too blingy? I was curious about that but wasn't sure. But I trust Betterthandiamonds judgement because all their other stuff looks great. How do you like the v6?

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I hesitate to answer as I am afraid it will display my ignorance, but here was my thought when ordering the earrings: I opted for the v6 mainly due to the setting. The martini setting has the stones sit close to your ears, nearly flush. I like the extra "brightness" that the v6 offers with this setting since I think less light would get in from the sides and back of the stone (as compared to other more traditional settings that lift the stone away from the ear and allow more light to pass thru). Had I opted for a basket or scroll setting, then I probably would have stuck with the v5.

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

This says it all.....

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...7/Diamonds.jpg

I contacted Angelic from BTD and I am purchasing my ring soon. :)

I'm not getting it till thanksgiving though, can't wait to report back!

Great Post!
I chose Moissanite 2 years ago, and am very very happy with it. Fantastic. Thanks for the clue about Asha. I will research it for the next purchase!

You are awesome, Posh. I hope you are a writer for the luxury industry, because your a great read. Thanks for adding to the RG community.

MetricsGeek

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Originally Posted by metricsgeek

Great Post!
I chose Moissanite 2 years ago, and am very very happy with it. Fantastic. Thanks for the clue about Asha. I will research it for the next purchase!

You are awesome, Posh. I hope you are a writer for the luxury industry, because your a great read. Thanks for adding to the RG community.

MetricsGeek

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Thank you so much, MG! I appreciate you finding some useful information in here.

But we also need to thank wealthy people for helping me help you. Without them not wanting to be like us and buying the expensive stuff that gets replicated because we want to have things like they do but still eat, we wouldn't be able to rub our super replicas in their faces. It's getting harder to tell who's rich and who's not and it vexes the hell out of them. :D

I JUST placed my order with BTD

WOOT WOOT
:cowboy:


1.5 version 6 (they did not have v5 on this) hearts and arrows round tiffany reproduction in palladium.

ok I am BEYOND extatic.

btw, did I ever mention future hubby thinks I'm getting the real thing? He would not listen when I told him I wanted a rep.

:)

I hope he sees it and thinks it's great and he finally gets that I DONT NEED a real diamond!!! :)

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Originally Posted by socaligurl80

I JUST placed my order with BTD

WOOT WOOT
:cowboy:


1.5 version 6 (they did not have v5 on this) hearts and arrows round tiffany reproduction in palladium.

ok I am BEYOND extatic.

btw, did I ever mention future hubby thinks I'm getting the real thing? He would not listen when I told him I wanted a rep.

:)

I hope he sees it and thinks it's great and he finally gets that I DONT NEED a real diamond!!! :)

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That's great! Social responsible bling is very good thing!

Since you are saving money and making an ethical choice, why did he think you were buying a real diamond? :confused:

Fantastic write-up Posh thanks for taking the time to do this.

ok so this is the story

boyfriend and I opened a bank account together some time ago.. he kept depositing into it and couple days ago he set me a budget and told me to get a nice diamond set at tiffanys with it.

I didn't dare to tell him I placed the order because I already know he disapproves of me buying rep watches and bags and he REALLY wants it to be a diamond so I placed the order at BTD last night and can't wait for him to see it..

plus the last time i even mentioned a sim he would not listen.

:) hopefully he will be convinced it's really good (I don't mean to fool him, just show him a sim can be just as good)

pretty interesting stuff about rep stones. I have watched a few specials & read some mag articles about the diamond trade so i have never been fond of them.

the betterthan website shows contact info as Issaquah WA i.e south-east of lake Sammamish ... maybe someone can go over and verify their credentials ? Heck if i have the time when i head up in December i might go over wth my cuz. Chances are he knows the place since he used to be in jewelery machining, etc

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Originally Posted by socaligurl80

ok so this is the story

boyfriend and I opened a bank account together some time ago.. he kept depositing into it and couple days ago he set me a budget and told me to get a nice diamond set at tiffanys with it.

I didn't dare to tell him I placed the order because I already know he disapproves of me buying rep watches and bags and he REALLY wants it to be a diamond so I placed the order at BTD last night and can't wait for him to see it..

plus the last time i even mentioned a sim he would not listen.

:) hopefully he will be convinced it's really good (I don't mean to fool him, just show him a sim can be just as good)

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How can your boyfriend not love the fact that you're socially and economically minded. So many women are not, especially when it comes diamonds. mart women get really stupid really quickly, even a vegan, politically active, communist friend of mine. She's Mrs. Protest-War-At -The White-House and then had a conniption when her SECOND husband to be said that he didn't want to buy her a diamond for ethical reasons. He wussed and got her the nicest blood diamond I've seen in a while. I'll being to that hypocritical wedding next year.

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Originally Posted by chronoluvvv

pretty interesting stuff about rep stones. I have watched a few specials & read some mag articles about the diamond trade so i have never been fond of them.

the betterthan website shows contact info as Issaquah WA i.e south-east of lake Sammamish ... maybe someone can go over and verify their credentials ? Heck if i have the time when i head up in December i might go over wth my cuz. Chances are he knows the place since he used to be in jewelery machining, etc

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They're reputation is impeccable. They will answer any questions you have directly from their contact page or their forum, which they regularly post to. Contact them about visiting and I think they'll oblige.

My ring is waiting for me to go pick it up in LA end of the month.. :)

can't wait to see pics taken by my brother!!!!!

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Originally Posted by socaligurl80

My ring is waiting for me to go pick it up in LA end of the month.. :)

can't wait to see pics taken by my brother!!!!!

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Are you getting it at BTD's retail location? This is going to be exciting.

Did you tell your BF the shocking truth about that "diamond?" :eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by socaligurl80

I JUST placed my order with BTD

WOOT WOOT
:cowboy:


1.5 version 6 (they did not have v5 on this) hearts and arrows round tiffany reproduction in palladium.

ok I am BEYOND extatic.

btw, did I ever mention future hubby thinks I'm getting the real thing? He would not listen when I told him I wanted a rep.

:)

I hope he sees it and thinks it's great and he finally gets that I DONT NEED a real diamond!!! :)

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Congrats! Can't wait to see some pictures of it. I'm actually giving some serious thought to buying one for my GF as well. Will probably get the setting elsewhere but am looking at a 1ct or 1.25ct from BTD. The GF would have no issues with this. To be honest she doesn't want me to spend a ton on a diamond anyway. Been there and done that with two rings before. At least I got them back to recoup a little money from them. Current GF would much rather use what we save on other things. Like maybe getting back into school.

I have seen the BTD site and read up some of the forums as well. The stones (esp. V5) look to be identical to the real thing. The concern I have is the longevity of the stone (discoloration/scratches etc.)....especially after it's been on the finger for a few months.

Any advice/tips on this?

Cheers

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Originally Posted by samurai jack

I have seen the BTD site and read up some of the forums as well. The stones (esp. V5) look to be identical to the real thing. The concern I have is the longevity of the stone (discoloration/scratches etc.)....especially after it's been on the finger for a few months.

Any advice/tips on this?

Cheers

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I think that the process they are using on the V6's will keep them from discoloring. As for scratches it looks like too much softer than diamond so I'm thinking it should resist scratches really well.

My understanding is that though V6 is slightly harder than V5 due to the coating....V5 is closest to a natural diamond.....hence the interest in V5.

The reason that discoloring/clouding/scratching is not a major issue with Asha is due to their use of amorphous diamond-like carbon coating that is infused into the upper layers of the substrate (the stone). This coating, which is similar to the coating used on Chopard's Mille Miglia Speed Black but higher on the DLC scale and unique to Asha, is what allows the stone to not only be scratch-resistent (in part to its now FAR lower friction coefficient) but also impermeable to water, air, dirt and dust, the very common things we come into contact with everyday that inevitably ends up clouding an ordinary cubic zirconia. There are few, if any, other companies seriously doing this with their stones because of the research involved and "extraneous" costs; most companies simply do not want to invest in improving diamond simulants because there is typically fatter margins in real stones and most companies who sell diamond simulants of any kind also sell mined diamonds; they would not want to risk killing this cash cow for anything. So many buyers simply do not care about socio-environmental impact of the mined gem industry, which still makes up the lion's share of the jewelry sector.

Although BTD does sell natural diamonds, it is not the bulk of their business like many other firms. They sell them because clients rave about their total experince with BTD to everyone (anyone!) and not all these new individuals have seen the simulant light causing these clients to lean toward mined stones. BTD would hate to send their business across the street and are just being comprehensive, for which I cannot really blame them. This mirrors the situation I mentioned above with firms who sell primarily mined diamonds but also simulants. However, the core of Betterthandiamond.com's business is in simulant, synthetic and cultured stones/pearls. I simply cannot say enough good things about Wink and his team. Buy (V5!) in total and complete confidence. :)

I BEGGED my brother to take pics

he did not have a digi cam handy so took this with his blackberry

looks like crap here but I believe it will be just like a diamond in person (you try taking a pic with ur phone and see if it comes out nicely.. even a real diamond will not lol)


so.. I won't be in LA till thanksgiving

I did tell boyfriend I got a sim but he has NO idea I got it for our engagement.. I'll just let him see it when we get there LOL


ok I got it at BTD's website

it's a tiffany reproduction 1.5 carat version 6 :)

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Originally Posted by TA8088

Congrats! Can't wait to see some pictures of it. I'm actually giving some serious thought to buying one for my GF as well. Will probably get the setting elsewhere but am looking at a 1ct or 1.25ct from BTD. The GF would have no issues with this. To be honest she doesn't want me to spend a ton on a diamond anyway. Been there and done that with two rings before. At least I got them back to recoup a little money from them. Current GF would much rather use what we save on other things. Like maybe getting back into school.

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did u check the forum? it;s FULL of pics!!!

http://www.betterthandiamond.com/dis...780#Post432780

one example.. that sold me