Me And A Gun

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Originally Posted by guest916

And keeping it in a safe but accesable spot against the day it may be needed. Much like any other tool.

There are some sound basic guidelines it may be well to follow in the sellection of a defensive weapon for the home. Happy to offer M2CW. Feel free to PM me if I can be of assistance.

:)

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Appreciate the offer...first thing is to get a reliable gun, hence the glock...but i dont neccessarily want a cannon as i expect my wife to learn to clean and use the gun, hence the 22 cal. As for keeping it in a safe place i was looking at those fingerprint safes that you can keep by your bed..thoughts on that or thoughts on a better hand gun?...not a revolver lover although I understand that would prob require less maint and provide better reliability... thanks again....

brittt-

If I might be so bold- a Smith & Wesson 5906 or 6906 is an excellent autoloader for your home.

It is a stainless and aluminum 15/13 shot auto (respectively). The stainless makes it quite resistant to corrosion, a blued firearm (Walther) requires far more maintenance.

It is a double action handgun with a decocking lever. This means the first pull of the trigger is rather long and heavy (although smooth). This allows the user time to back off if necessary. Quite a few police departments have gone to double action only handguns for this very reason.

Once loaded and decocked (a round in chamber, hammer safely lowered by the lever) it can be put on safe which now requires a separate distinct action to allow it to fire, or it can be left off safe with the hammer down. Again it requires a long heavy trigger pull to fire the handgun.

On top of that it is equipped with a magazine safety. Once the magazine is removed it is essentially impossible to fire the weapon. This also serves as a failsafe in the unlikely event that the weapon is wrested from you in a close-up struggle. Punch the magazine out and get distance between you and the attacker.

The 9mm in modern loadings is sufficient to stop an attacker in the event it needs to be employed. The days of the 9mm being an insufficient cartridge are long over. There is the added benefit of it being a commonly available cartridge and quite inexpensive if bought in case lots.

They are also very reasonably priced as many police departments are switching to .40 S&W (a MUCH snappier caliber than 9mm with attendant recoil issues) and 59/69 series trade-ins typically retail for 350-400 dollars.

I've owned them and enjoy them immensely.

I would not recommend a Glock for a novice shooter (flame away). I do not like the absence of a positive safety which is why I tend to stick to the CZ75 in 9mm or the 1911.

Sorry I went a tad overboard and misconstrued your posting.

The whole issue is actually fun to debate and while I'm sure we'll never, ever agree on it it still exercises the brain.

I brought up rocks as they were used as weapons but in reflection I probably should have left them out of the narrative. Sharp sticks (spears) however WERE designed solely to kill, as were every implement listed after.

In actuality a bow can kill at far greater range than a handgun can.

My base point is I simply do not trust my government to always do the right thing no matter who is running the show. Power corrupts and those in office seek only to amass more power unto themselves. Couple that with legal precedent that the police are under no obligation to protect you from a criminal and that is my reason for choosing to carry a weapon while I am not working.

Turn the other cheek is all nice and dandy until someone is trying to turn your neck into a reasonable facsimilie of a Pez dispenser.

But since we're on the road of the government is supposed to protect us, by removal, of anything capable of doing harm- perhaps we should ban religion. More people have been killed because God, Allah, Ya-eh or whoever is being prayed to at the time told them. Religious intolerance has killed more people than firearms have, however the longer religion is allowed to proliferate the more people will die in His name.

People are dying right here and now in the most horrific ways, not 1000 meters from where I sit, not even because of a differing God but on political divisions dating back over a thousand years!

We need to outlaw religion immediately, after all If we can save just ONE life.....

^ is obviously hyperbole to make a point.

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Originally Posted by sfa437

But since we're on the road of the government is supposed to protect us, by removal, of anything capable of doing harm- perhaps we should ban religion. More people have been killed because God, Allah, Ya-eh or whoever is being prayed to at the time told them. Religious intolerance has killed more people than firearms have, however the longer religion is allowed to proliferate the more people will die in His name.

People are dying right here and now in the most horrific ways, not 1000 meters from where I sit, not even because of a differing God but on political divisions dating back over a thousand years!

We need to outlaw religion immediately, after all If we can save just ONE life.....


^ is obviously hyperbole to make a point.

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Get proactive on that.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...religion-4.jpg

Here is a question for the gun banners....

Firearms were MUCH more easily obtained prior to 1968. One could order a weapon through the MAIL! No background check, no NICS, just put a money order in an envelope. Two weeks later, your rifle/shotgun/handgun showed up on your doorstep.

Murder rates were MUCH lower then vice today.

What happened during the mid 60's that radically changed American urban society?

Vermont has no real firearms laws to speak of. One can enter a firearms retailer, purchase a weapon, load it, conceal it on your person and walk about with it. Vermont has a very low per capita homicide rate.

Washington DC has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the country. Possession of a handgun is essentially illegal. You cannot purchase one nor carry one concealed or otherwise. Washington DC has one of the highest per capita homicide rates in the country.

Dallas (low homicide rate) Detroit (high homicide rate). Raleigh (low homicide rate) NYC (high homicide rate).

Now lets move onto Switzerland. They have more than watches- just about every home has a fully automatic rifle contained within. Not an incorrectly termed "semi-automatic assault rifle" (no such animal) but a selective fire machinegun. They have a very low homicide rate and spree killing is unheard of.

Just wondering why this is- can someone enlighten me?

I think of gun haters as trolls, their sole purpose is to spew out illogical ideas as to why guns should be banned, for example, if guns were banned and someone wanted to kill someone there's always the black market to get an illegal gun just like there is one now, OR they'll just find other means of killing them let it be a bomb [home-made pipe-bomb, etc.], knife, machete, baseball bat, strangle them to death, running over them, poisoning them, bludgeoning them with a blunt object, etc.

Guns are not the problem, people are.

@sfa: great points as usual.

Guanaco-

I actually understand the gun-ban crowd's logic.

Someone bent on committing the penultimate crime, murder, will suddenly say to themselves "I'd best not shoot this guy because my gun is illegal".

They'll put down the weapon and invite the intended victim over for some Earl Grey and cucumber sandwiches.

Couple this with the SENSATIONAL success of banning things like drugs (currently) and alcohol (Prohibition), it'll be peace love and farfegnugen for everyone!

One more thing I desperately need enlightenment on.....

Could someone please define the word "criminal" for me?

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Originally Posted by Guanaco

I think of gun haters as trolls, their sole purpose is to spew out illogical ideas as to why guns should be banned, for example, if guns were banned and someone wanted to kill someone there's always the black market to get an illegal gun just like there is one now, OR they'll just find other means of killing them let it be a bomb [home-made pipe-bomb, etc.], knife, machete, baseball bat, strangle them to death, running over them, poisoning them, bludgeoning them with a blunt object, etc.

Guns are not the problem, people are.

@sfa: great points as usual.

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True. I think we should ban people. Makes as much sense as banning firearms.

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Originally Posted by Anubis

Get proactive on that.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...religion-4.jpg

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SPOT-ON!

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Originally Posted by sfa437

Here is a question for the gun banners....

Firearms were MUCH more easily obtained prior to 1968. One could order a weapon through the MAIL! No background check, no NICS, just put a money order in an envelope. Two weeks later, your rifle/shotgun/handgun showed up on your doorstep.

Murder rates were MUCH lower then vice today.

What happened during the mid 60's that radically changed American urban society?

Vermont has no real firearms laws to speak of. One can enter a firearms retailer, purchase a weapon, load it, conceal it on your person and walk about with it. Vermont has a very low per capita homicide rate.

Washington DC has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the country. Possession of a handgun is essentially illegal. You cannot purchase one nor carry one concealed or otherwise. Washington DC has one of the highest per capita homicide rates in the country.

Dallas (low homicide rate) Detroit (high homicide rate). Raleigh (low homicide rate) NYC (high homicide rate).

Now lets move onto Switzerland. They have more than watches- just about every home has a fully automatic rifle contained within. Not an incorrectly termed "semi-automatic assault rifle" (no such animal) but a selective fire machinegun. They have a very low homicide rate and spree killing is unheard of.

Just wondering why this is- can someone enlighten me?

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People live in Vermont?

I think there's only one "gun banner" here and it's probably me. Almost every individual I've met who owns a gun is person I would NEVER be the first to give a gun to on any occasion. I think I know four people I've met with guns who I felt like were type person who should have one other than officers of the law. Two of them are my parents, and they haven't touched that gun since they bought it. There's NO crime in Shook Hills. The third person is the Marine I know that I dated briefly. Odd, but true. The fourth person was my father's friend's friend whose house we went to for clay shooting in Yorkshire, England. His collection consisted almost entirely of Holland & Holland and Purdey rifles and/or shotguns. The collection was worth over a million dollars. That's obviously not what most people who talk about unfettered gun ownership are buying. :machine:

As far as low homicide rates go in all those places, I have no idea why there's a disparity. We could speculate or we could get sociologist in here and have them break it down for us. That can be your assignment. :machine:

Sfa, you want to own guns. You want your kids to own guns. You want your wife to have a gun. You want everybody to go through classes and then get one. I get it. You like guns and you think they're okay in the "right" hands. :machine:

I'm sorry everybody is afraid. I don't have a gun. I don't even carry mace. Before guns, people managed to live and go about their lives. Baltimore doesn't scare me. Washington, D.C. doesn't scare me. I don't need a gun to feel safe. My parents hate the fact that I live too close to crime and constantly wished I would move home but I'm safe in my own skin no matter where I am. They raised a fighter.

A woman living anywhere in the world, a world where men do and say the most despicable things, whether online or off, has to be a fighter. She doesn't need a gun to do it but it MIGHT help and it MIGHT not. And really if anybody needed a gun, it would be us women. You guys are big and burley and clinging to your guns like your d*ck. Unless you're in a war or the police, cling to your own strength. Can I shoot a gun? Yes. Do I need a gun? No. I've got the two most powerful weapon available to me everywhere I go: my mind and my will.

Posh-

The point I am trying to make with disparate per-capita rates is rural areas tend to value self-reliance, personal responsibility, common sense (an apparently uncommon virtue) and strong family ties.

Urban areas typically value things like entitlement, reliance on government, abrogation of personal responsibility and refer to "baby-daddies" with pride vice a strong extended family.

Violence in every form, not only firearm related, is a sociological issue tied to a breakdown in a societies mores, or more accurately a replacement of traditional mores with ones similar to those found at the time of the decline of Rome.

Personal indulgence above all else, instant gratification, "Do it if it feels good" are America's rallying cries now. We are satisfied with "bread and circuses", blind to what is happening to us as a society and a culture and heading rapidly downwards.

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Originally Posted by sfa437

Posh-

The point I am trying to make with disparate per-capita rates is rural areas tend to value self-reliance, personal responsibility, common sense (an apparently uncommon virtue) and strong family ties.

Urban areas typically value things like entitlement, reliance on government, abrogation of personal responsibility and refer to "baby-daddies" with pride vice a strong extended family.

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This is a blanket generalization made precipitously; your views on urban areas is short-sighted and bigoted. I find country folk to be of the same quality as any city person. I found that out this summer. So you can take this generalization back to Long Island with you.

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Originally Posted by sfa437

Violence in every form, not only firearm related, is a sociological issue tied to a breakdown in a societies mores, or more accurately a replacement of traditional mores with ones similar to those found at the time of the decline of Rome.

Personal indulgence above all else, instant gratification, "Do it if it feels good" are America's rallying cries now. We are satisfied with "bread and circuses", blind to what is happening to us as a society and a culture and heading rapidly downwards.

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If you feel this is true, why do you want these people having access to guns, in any way shape, form or fashion? Knowing people are degenerate, stupid and reactionary should want you seeing them stripped of all weapons, especially those that shoot projectiles.

And these mores you speak of, you kill for them daily so don't knock them to hard. And I have sneaking suspicion you've allowed yourself to partake in all these "personal indulgences." Don't take the moral high road when it suits you; take it all the time.

Posh, people have been killing each other since ancient times where guns hadn't been invented yet, massacres occurred, tragedies happened, assassinations were made, etc. The world is always at war no matter what type of weapons are available, what makes you think banning guns will make this world a better place?

"Either war is obsolete or men are." ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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Originally Posted by Posh

Thank you, Swiss, for pointing out the one time I spelled His name. I was alluding to the Scarlett O'Hara movie quote but I didn't think I would have to explain or defend that either.

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1) God's name is not "God". You may want to visit a church or synagogue, or take an Intro to Religion class at your local community college.

2) The one time you spelled it out? The one time? lol

There are at least a few other instances...

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post438811

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post421073

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post417205

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post374268

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post342757

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post333201

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post329199

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post325765

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post320062

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post317100

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post311091

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post303374

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?p=...God#post302536



So why spell it out sometimes and sometimes not? Some of these posts are from the good ol' days before large red EVERYBODY-LOOK-AT-ME! font, but most are more recent and some are from the past several days... so I'm ruling out a sudden adoption of religious convictions. Maybe the inconsistency is because in some threads you want to appear serious and religious, and in others you don't? This would make sense, given how conscious you seem to be of image/appearances in general... Anyway, it's interesting.

Little fuel for the flames?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...amondback2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88...ctro/dosa5.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...0C/U1Glock.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...oxaGMTColt.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...UTSHolster.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88...anglercolt.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...amondback1.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...-SixChrono.jpg

Awesome pics guest!

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Originally Posted by Posh

This is a blanket generalization made precipitously; your views on urban areas is short-sighted and bigoted. I find country folk to be of the same quality as any city person. I found that out this summer. So you can take this generalization back to Long Island with you.

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It is indeed a generalization, as is the statement "guns serve no other purpose than to take human life". There is target shooting, CASS, IPSC, trap, skeet, hunting, visual deterrent (police) and mark of rank (military). You are welcome to make your generalizations and I'll stick with mine.

Urban areas tend to be cesspits of crime, rural areas much less so. There are reasons for that. I believe I stated them quite accurately butthey are based on my personal observations alone. Yours differ. The fact remains urban areas are significantly more crime ridden than rural areas and there are social reasons for it, not because there is something in the water in cities that is lacking in the countryside.

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Originally Posted by Posh

If you feel this is true, why do you want these people having access to guns, in any way shape, form or fashion? Knowing people are degenerate, stupid and reactionary should want you seeing them stripped of all weapons, especially those that shoot projectiles.

And these mores you speak of, you kill for them daily so don't knock them to hard. And I have sneaking suspicion you've allowed yourself to partake in all these "personal indulgences." Don't take the moral high road when it suits you; take it all the time.

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I have never stated everyone should be allowed access to a firearm. Matter of fact I was exceptionally clear on the subject. I believe an individual should have the right to determine for themselves if they wish to own one and if they wish to own one- meet qualifications similar to and in some cases surpassing those of police officers/sheriffs deputies.

The fact is, as I have stated before, banning an item does not make it go away. Again, refer to the definition of the word criminal. Taken to it's core a criminal is one who does not obey the laws of the society in which he/she lives. Now why would a criminal obey a gun law when they do not obey laws against rape, murder, kidnapping, pedophilia, narcotics trafficking, assault, robbery or burglary?

As far as what I kill for, to say I do it for God & country or some moral reason is asinine. You, probably more than 99% of the members here, know what my job is.

Does it entail killing? Yes it does. It involves removing those from the planet those who would take an electric drill to a child's joints because they think the Imams should be elected rather than hereditary or vice versa. It involves depriving the worst humanity has to offer of oxygen. I've also said I am involved in counter-terror and not counter-insurgency work. An insurgent I respect, he is standing up for what he thinks is right and doing something about it. A terrorist is a coward who preys on the weak. Big difference.

It also involves quite a bit more than killing (see "Do Something Good Today" in the Off Topic section- with video!).

As far as my personal indulgences, on occasion my house has resembled a Bacchanalian Festival in high gear, however it is not the focus of my life, nor would it ever take precedence over any other aspect of my being. That is why the caveat "above all else" was added.

As for instant gratification, if I believed in the concept would be selling crack or meth or perhaps robbing Post Office registered mailbags and making 10 times what I currently draw in salary so you're quite off base on that one. Two things lead to gratification in my world, work and effort, and neither is instant.


If I cannot afford a good cigar, I do not steal one. If I want a nice car I save my money to purchase one and do not carjack one. If I am feeling horny I wait until I see my wife and do not grab and rape the first female who crosses my path. There are those who would prefer the latter solution to the former. I prefer the former. Big difference there. It is the presence of those who would choose the latter in our society that encourage me to carry arms.

As for "Do it if it feels good", I have never partaken of any illegal substance save marijuana back in high school. I would imagine a few lines of coke or smidgen of heroin is quite pleasant, however it is illegal and I refrain from it for that reason, if not for the addictive properties alone. I have alcoholics in my family and limit my intake of alcohol for that reason. Being intoxicated is quite a nice feeling. It feels good. I do not frequently inbibe sufficiently to become intoxicated due to possible consequences. Sorry, but you're wrong again.

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Originally Posted by Posh

Before guns, people managed to live and go about their lives.

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As educated and articulate as you are, you are stating nobody was murdered until a firearm was invented? Absolute rubbish!

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Originally Posted by Posh

A woman living anywhere in the world, a world where men do and say the most despicable things, whether online or off, has to be a fighter. She doesn't need a gun to do it but it MIGHT help and it MIGHT not. And really if anybody needed a gun, it would be us women.

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You've essentially proven my point for me. I am simply saying it should be a matter of individual choice to own a firearm or not. Also believe me when I say if someone with 1/10th of my training and ability was of the mind to hurt a woman (a good 90% of them anyway), even unarmed, a firearm would be the only way to end the situation.

The French in WWI were convinced elan and esprit de corps would carry them to victory. Will and spirit, I believe those words translate into.....then they met the invention of Hiram Maxim. Want to guess which one won the day?

Little fuel for the flames?

Nice Doxas, nice Sinn, Nice UTS... why have we not met?

Detective Special, Diamondback....

What no Python???

REALLY like that orange Doxa too- that is way cool :cool:

@sfa: +1 on just about everything you wrote, and kudos for deconstructing fluffy flawed arguments (as "articulate" as they might appear to the emotional and untrained eye/mind) and presenting pretty darn good ones in response!

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Originally Posted by swissaddict

@sfa: +1 on just about everything you wrote, and kudos for deconstructing fluffy flawed arguments (as "articulate" as they might appear to the emotional and untrained eye/mind) and presenting pretty darn good ones in response!

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Ditto. My hat's off sfa, excellent responses and comments in every way. :cool:

With all due respect to you and your belief system, any argument can very well be made about anything under the sun. However, the Hebrew is very clear and straightforward. I'm not religious, not Christian, and couldn't care less either way, but it would be sophistry to bend the meanings to fit your beliefs.

Re the definition of a bad person, your words, not mine. I never said that intention is the "only" thing that makes a person "bad" in my view. We will agree to disagree on the intention vs. deed issue. Some very bad, unethical people donate money to charities for the sole purpose of taking a tax writeoff. Was the donation made with good intentions? Certainly not. It was made for personal gain. Only my opinion, of course, but I think intentions weigh heavier than deeds. Is a hangman who enjoys inflicting fatal wounds on his victims a good man? Would you let this man babysit your children?

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Originally Posted by painm8ker

Kollektor,

I think the argument can be made about how to interpret the ancient Hebrew meaning of Kill vs. Murder, but in a subsequent clarification Jesus showed up and started the whole turn the other cheek thing. Then he showed us what he meant, just in case there was any question by dieing without resistance. He even chastised Peter for trying to defend him by cutting off that servant guys ear. Pretty much all the 12 met the same end. So if your a christian you don't have a religious argument to stand on. Your only hope is to repent on your death bed if your a christian soldier. Its not relative or based on circumstances if you kill someone you committed a sin, accept it, repent, pray for forgiveness.

God was also pretty clear about it being OK for him to kill and not for us "Vengance is Mine."

This is another one of the things that those of us who have chosen to serve in spite of our faith have to live with.

I do agree not all those who serve are sociopaths, some just accept that risking their immortal souls for the greater good is an acceptable risk. Some are sociopaths though, can you guess which I am?

I am not sure I buy into your point about someone being bad only if they enjoy killing, in the end we are not judged by what we think or what we feel, we are and should be judged by what we do. There is an old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Theology, metaphysics and ethics on rep watch board who would have thought!

Thanks for getting us all thinking Posh!

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Originally Posted by swissaddict

I knew about this, but I thought it applied only to the name (or names) of God.. none of which are "God".

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I think the very reference - even by proxy - to the name is a matter of controversy. However, most believe it applies to proxy names in other languages.

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Originally Posted by sfa437

Detective Special, Diamondback....

What no Python???

REALLY like that orange Doxa too- that is way cool :cool:

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Det Spcl (nickel) & Det Spcl II (stainless).

Trooper, Anaconda, etc.. couldn't justify a Python even back when they were more affordable. Duh!

Excellent "mission statement" SFA. Thanks for your work.

:thumbup:

:lol:

Bravo, gentlemen. Your deconstructions of shoddy arguments is admirable.

Bravo again.

:highjacked:

This is now officially an awesome gun thread!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...n/MP5EO003.jpg

I'm in!

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...923_resize.jpg

Excellent! This is a raid! Go, go go!

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...18/DSC0003.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...18/DSC0005.jpg

Dibs on the MP5

:D

http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/k...r/IMG_2590.jpg

And he was delicious. Saute'd in butter with a port wine reduction, damson plum sauce - wild rice with craisins and roasted hazelnuts - and caramelized butternut squash.

I'm officially hungry! :D

I'm 10-7 on this topic.

שָׁלוֹם

Oh wait! Nice guns! Perhaps this thread has taken a turn for the better!

Ok I'm too lazy to grab a camera now, so here's some older ones.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ope/Glock2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2..._cope/Home.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCN0757.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCN0758.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCN0731.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/IMG_4306.jpg

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Originally Posted by rattlerviper

Oh wait! Nice guns! Perhaps this thread has taken a turn for the better!

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Yes sir! Thread has been hi-jacked, please join the Raid! :cool:

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Originally Posted by capt_cope

Time to grab a camera.

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Looking forward to those pics Capt!

Sweet! I love that FAL!

Ok ok, I think I might go snap a new pic of my AR. I'm not done painting it yet, so it's not AS sexy as it could be.

Oops forgot this one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/Emerson2.jpg

Israeli Military Women. Gotta love em. The Galil I mean :lol:

[IMG]http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6...6216d55fn4.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry to nitpick, but the thumb always caps the top of the knife in RGEO. Details, details :-)

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Originally Posted by capt_cope

Ok I'm too lazy to grab a camera now, so here's some older ones.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ope/Glock2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2..._cope/Home.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCN0757.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCN0758.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCN0731.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/IMG_4306.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kollektor

Sorry to nitpick, but the thumb always caps the top of the knife in RGEO. Details, details :-)

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That isn't nitpicking! That prevents damage to the hand if you should actually have to use the knife.