Me And A Gun

[Posh]

I was torn between three different titles, one using Aerosmith's Janie's Got A Gun and the third using Pearl Jam's Jeremy. I settled on Tori Amos' Me and a Gun which is her song about her brutal rape at gun point in the 1980s after a performance she gave at a bar, just before she became very famous. The harrowing experience was immortalized and dealt with by the cathartic writing of this song, a song that she performs infrequently, for many obvious and not so obvious reasons. However, when she does, it's often acapella, sitting on a stool with no lights on in the venue except for a single spotlight directly above her head. This song allowed her to take back what she lost that day at the end of that gun. I'm proud to say that I am a member and supporter of RAINN in part because of this song.


Tori now mostly performs this song with a full band as her American Doll alter ego, Pip, with disturbing props.

But that's not completely what this post is about. The Obama post has a lot of people singing the praises of children being in contact with guns. I have no idea when being able to use, clean and handle guns became a part of a fulfilling childhood. I'm very glad I wasn't privy to that aspect of being an "well-adjusted" child. You know what we have today? Child soldiers from kids being indoctrinated very early into the whole war, violence and gun culture. I know what you're going to say:



I'm not going to inundate this post with a lot of written statistics because I just don't have the time and it would upset me too much, with this post already taking to me to a place I don't want to go. The numbers and arguments, both in favor of kids having access to guns and not, are out there if you want to use them in support of my stance or to take it down, if you care to look for them. I'm going to go with my heart on this one and say that childhood should be filled with as little access to strife and fear as possible. The effects of a childhood lived in the opposite way is apparent everyday around the world. In the Obama post, it was mentioned that children not being treated little adults is a relatively new construct, with which I will partially agree. Thanks to advancements in society, children can be allowed to be children without being sold off into marriage or placed on a battlefield, at least most parts of the country. But it doesn't matter what it used to be like 100 or 1,000 year ago; now, children are expected to have formative years filled with security, love, fun, learning and happiness.

Another member stated in the Obama thread that fear of guns is for some reason "creepy." Why wouldn't you be afraid since guns were created for one specific reason: the destruction of not just life, but human life. Anyway, I'm considered so "wordy" around here by so few who matter in my life, I'm going to let these pictures (and the AP) do the talking. I have to thank a publishing pal for compilation of these pictures for this post! I would also like to state that this is NOT about "conservative" or "liberal." For me, this about life and what I think G-d would want. That's my belief and I stand by it.

My posts are open to all viewpoints (I don't like most forms of censorship) and anybody feeling one way or another is welcome to comment or not as long as you keep it civil, out respect for me, the founders of RG and fellow members. This doesn't mean you should exorcise passion from your post; this subject is inherently draws out passion responses. So I'll start.

Anybody who thinks kids with guns is cool is a:



A four year old Iraq child cries as older boys stage a mock execution in Baghdad, Iraq, Monday, July 2, 2007. Children's games are under a heavy influence of ongoing violence in the country, one of the more popular ones being a clash between militias and police.


Samboo, a 12-year-old soldier in the Karen rebel army fighting against Myanmar's military, poses with his rifle in a jungle camp on the border with Thailand in this January 31, 2000 file photo. The United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) on October 30 called for the demobilisation of 70,000 child soldiers, some as young as seven, fighting in armies across East Asia.


















Trench coat Mafia anyone? I'm sure he's very popular amongst his peers.


Unfortunately, kids around the world like to play with guns. But in the Palestinian territories the games take on a sinister undertone when almost every boy seems to carry a fake weapon and children reenact in detail the shootings and arrests they witness on the streets. Picture taken October 13, 2007.


In a mixed but hopeful report released this week by the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers, in the past four years the use of children as soldiers has dropped from 27 percent in 2004 to 17 percent this year. It's not completely positive, however, as this trend could be a correlation resulting from ending conflicts altogether as opposed to the discontinuation of using children as soldiers.

The children gleefully threw their guns into a bonfire, most of them AK-47 and M-16 rifles and cheered as they were destroyed. Some of the children even wore placards reading, “We hate toy guns. We love football." The guns in India were toys — though some children shoulder real weapons in times of war. To see the light at the end of this tunnel, read more.


Children hold their toy guns prior to burning them at Keinou, 25 miles (40 kilometers) south of Imphal, India, Wednesday, May 21, 2008. Hundreds of village children in India's insurgency-wracked northeast burned their toy guns in a symbolic protest against the violence in Manipur state, where at least 17 rebel groups have been fighting for independent homelands or autonomy. More than 5,000 people have been killed in the fighting over the past 10 years.




Uruguayan school children observe confiscated guns before being destroyed in front of Congress in Montevideo, during the launch of a program to decrease the number of guns circulating in the civilian population, May 23, 2008. According to government statistics there is one gun in circulation for every three Uruguayan citizens.


A member of the Baath militia giving his kids guns.











Samaritan children play with toy guns, 30 April 2007, before the sacrifice of the Passover ceremony at Mount Gerizim near the northern West Bank city of Nablus. The Samaritan religion is based on four principles of faith, One God-The God of Israel; One Prophet-Moses Ben Amram; The Belief in The TORAH-the first five books of the bible and One Holy Place-Mount Gerizim. The Samaritan community numbers about 720 people, half at Mount Gerizin in the West Bank and the others in Holon near Tel Aviv in Israel.




Palestinian children play with toy guns during the second day of Eid al-Fitr at al-Amaari refugee camp in the West Bank city of Ramallah October 14, 2007. The three-day holiday marks the end of the Muslim holy fasting month of Ramadan.

[merkman]

I don't know what to say, other than I'm glad I wasn't raised with guns, and haven't had to deal with most of the atrocities in this thread. I suppose that makes me evil on some level, not taking some sort of role or stance on this. But I'm just not the sort who can find positives in something so negative and disturbing.

[deeze]

I don't know what to say, other than I'm glad I wasn't raised with guns, and haven't had to deal with most of the atrocities in this thread.

Funny how the first person to respond to this tread claims to know nothing about guns... jeesh... are you feeling a little uneasy about that? Perhaps if you no nothing about it... it will go away? That's like saying “I don't know much about oxygen” and then persisting to hold your breath until you fall over. Make sure you at least “know something” about a pencil… who knows, maybe those murderous children will negotiate a treaty with ya...

I've never been so happy to have my canceled weapons permit along with a small arsenal after seeing photo’s like this. Think of the adults behind these photos!

[Guanaco]

I was raised with guns, and properly taught about them. Never had had an accident and my life is just as everyone else's, aka I'm no psycho nor any accidents occurred; my dad kept automatic guns in the house too, no problem there. We were taught 1st hand the danger of guns, what they should be used for ONLY and why. Anyone can be raised properly with guns around, the keyword here is 'proper', those kids in the pics above know no better than shooting 'infidels' is a-ok! And that's just plain stupid. Guns don't kill people, but they sure do make it easier .

I love guns, but in the wrong hands guns are more dangerous than a blind cab driver driving at full speed.

[Chris V.]

hmm.

[mickeypro]

i gotta dog, all the protection I need

[razorphish]

This thread will be in the bin in 5, 4, 3, 2 ...

[Chris V.]

1.

[drhydro]

Posh, thank you for this- these images should make all of us stop and think about the horror and insanity of hate and violence which has become so much a part of peoples' lives that assault weapons can be carried around the streets by children. It's an abomination.

And before you start, whoever you are, I own guns. Sometimes I even shoot 'em. Some of 'em are collectors' items, all of them I consider fine examples of artisanry and I value them... But I will tell you this- if it were possible to eliminate these kinds of weapons, and others, from this earth, to arrange things so that every time a human being was tempted to use *anything* as a weapon in anger it would simply disappear, leaving its wielder surprised and empty-handed....
if this were possible, I would happily give up every rifle, pistol, shotgun, cap pistol, fork, knife, pitchfork, shovel, broken bottle neck, tire iron, set of brass knuckles, you name it, that I own... if only by doing so I could be sure that these photos you've posted would never be possible to take.

And yep, this probably belongs in the off-topic section.

[Chris V.]

not exactly what i want to see in a post.. is children holding guns.

[Guanaco]

not exactly what i want to see in a post.. is children holding guns.

I see nothing wrong on posting that; it's a sad reality we live in when kids use guns on their everyday lives.

P.s. Your avatar is creepy. O_o

[razorphish]

I see nothing wrong on posting that; it's a sad reality we live in when kids use guns on their everyday lives.

P.s. Your avatar is creepy. O_o

I respect your opinion, but I have issue with this post because this is a watch forum. Not a social commentary forum, not a weapons forum, not a creepy artist forum, not a manbag forum. This is a watch forum.

I'll be the first to admit, in the past, I posted a few threads regarding off - topic subjects that I found interesting. However, what I realized, is that they were annoying. Although, well received, they were annoying because this is a watch forum.

I believe that we're surrounded by enough ****e on a daily basis. I don't want to visit the forum dedicated to my beloved hobby and see photos of kids holding weapons. That's not what this forum should be about.

This is a watch forum.

Kyle

[trevor2079]

My dad brought me shooting when I was 5. I grew up with a respect for guns. I don't think there is any problem teaching children how to hold and shoot a firearm. Guns in a household with children is far more dangerous if they don't know how to handle them.

[Guanaco]

While that may be true, there is an Off-Topic section for this sort of thing too.

[Starbelly]

I don't mind the images, either.

However, I feel compelled to note that Tori, despite the name of her song, was not held at gun point. She was threatened and held against her will with a knife.

[hypoluxo]

When I see those images of the kids with guns, it is not the guns that I find scary. It is the culture and brainwashing that influences those kids that is scary. Take away that culture that devalues life, and those guns would be a means of protection instead of a means of aggression.

Unfortunately, all of human history tells us that we will always be faced with aggressors in our world. You will be safe with your dog only until the guy with the gun shows up.

-lux

[rAc]

Its not the guns, its the upbringing these kids have. If there were no guns, and weapons were only limited to sharp objects, every one of those kids would either have a knife, sword or bow's and arrows, because that is what they are raised with.

The problem and answer starts with the parents, there is no way around that, if those same kids were taught what guns can do and to respect them, then shown that on a daily basis in the home, they would not be the way they are now, poor parenting and brainwashing of societies is what is going on here.

Also another note, none of these issues seem to happen in the states, or other countries with tight gun control laws. Every once in a while some idiot shoots his wife/kids by accident while "cleaning" his gun. And sometimes some random kid shoots other kids. But that is still lack of knowledge and respect for the gun.

[painm8ker]

Is it just me or are about half of these pictures of children with TOY guns? That seems a little deceptive to mix them in like that. It would be like putting pictures of little girls with realistic looking dolls in an article about teen pregnancy. The talk about child soldiers like its a new concept is also deceptive, children have been fighting wars since they were invented. Its sucks, but all war sucks for everyone who is involved. Argue to end wars all together, not to make them more civilized or more tolerable by putting in "rules". The more horrible and terrible a war is and the more people who know about it the less likely we are to do it again.

That being said I will put out there that I think private gun ownership in the US should be illegal. There is just no reason for it. You are far more likely to kill yourself or a loved one then to defend your home. The argument about the constitution is just silly, its says "the right to bear arms" which does not mean the right to own any weapon I want and carry it when ever I want. I am an engineer and know how to make chemical weapons but I don't think anyone is comfortable with that. As for letting the kids use the guns I don't let my kids use the table saw and its a lot less dangerous then the 12 Gauge.

The developing world is another story, people there live by a set of rules so different then what we know in the US. Having to kill an animal so it doesn't eat your children is a reality in some parts of the world. Pirates, kidnappers, thieves, rapists, and murders who work with or sometimes for the police are real concepts in the developing world. Teaching a child to shoot in that world makes sense. Us judging those people for doing that and casting a disgusted look at the father teaching his kid to shoot in that world seems a little pompous and arrogant to me. That's why people in those countries hate Americans. We judge them and look down on them and don't understand them or their lives at all.

Bottom like guns are tools, if the benefit of having the tool out ways the danger you should have one, if not then don't. Sorry NRA guys you have to make the decision on a society wide basis not on an individual basis or it doesn't work.

[SFA437]

That being said I will put out there that I think private gun ownership in the US should be illegal. There is just no reason for it.

Lets say someone like me, with my degree of training was determined to kill you- even without a firearm. Let's say a knife, or even less offensive- a baseball bat. What is the best response?

Call the police- I've turned your head into a canoe before you hit the last "1" in 911

Run- I routinely do 5:30 miles and can sprint quite well. You [might] get away if you're lucky and I'm tired

Back up 4 quick steps and draw a firearm- The sight of the firearm backs me off, and if it doesn't two center of mass and one cranio-ocular tops me. In addition reaction gaps favor the intial move, so you drawing the weapon is completed before I can backswing.

You are far more likely to kill yourself or a loved one then to defend your home.

The FBI UCR (Uniform Crime Report) for 2006 shows the defensive usage of firearms 1,188,607 times (reported to local PD). According to you- over 1.2 million people died in the US last year from shooting family members. Laughable. Do some research prior to spouting off statistics and BTW Dr. Trent Lott has completely discredited the study from which that piece of rhetoric came from and the authors themselves have apologized and said their research was designed to produce a certain result.

The argument about the constitution is just silly, its says "the right to bear arms" which does not mean the right to own any weapon I want and carry it when ever I want. I am an engineer and know how to make chemical weapons but I don't think anyone is comfortable with that.

Ah- so the 1st Amendment should only apply to a moveable typeface printing press and quill pens. Plus the 4th and 6th should only apply to your actual person and home, allowing warrantless searches of you e-mail and interception of telephone conversations. None of those were around when the Constitution was framed (please note capitalization of Constitution). In addition a chemical weapon is regulated by international treaties and is an indiscrimate weapon similar to explosive devices. "Arms" in the frame of the Constitution were weapons commonly employed by civilian infantry raised in time of war. Rifles and handguns predominantly but a shotgun showed up on occasion.

As a side note the word "regulated" does NOT mean Federally controlled. The word in the 1700's meant drilled or trained.

The developing world is another story, people there live by a set of rules so different then what we know in the US. Having to kill an animal so it doesn't eat your children is a reality in some parts of the world. Pirates, kidnappers, thieves, rapists, and murders who work with or sometimes for the police are real concepts in the developing world.

So we do not have thieves, kidnappers, rapists and murderers in the United States? Thank GOD! All the cops can go home and we'll all sit around sipping decaf vente vanilla chais at Starbucks and share a group hug! Hallelujah- Paradise on Earth- right in downtown Washington DC (oh wait can't go there after dark- wonder why since we have no murderers, kidnappers or rapists).

I was a cop for 13 years and the best thing going is an armed populace. Even Colin Ferguson stated he chose NY to go on a rampage because he KNEW nobody would have a firearm and be able to stop him. My wife carries a .38 Airweight and I feel better knowing she does. I will never subscribe to a theory that says it is perfectly OK for a 110 pound woman to fistfight a 280 pound rapist.

Bottom like guns are tools, if the benefit of having the tool out ways the danger you should have one, if not then don't. Sorry NRA guys you have to make the decision on a society wide basis not on an individual basis or it doesn't work.

Well since more people are killed yearly with blunt instruments than with firearms- nobody should have one. Sorry Home Depot and Louisville Slugger. More people are manually killed each year than with erroneously named "assault weapons" so nobody should have hands and feet. Well just the police and the Army- they're the only ones who really need them.

In a perfect world, there would be no use for a firearm for defensive purposes. We do not however live in a perfect world. I've seen depravity in the States that outshines what I see here in Iraq. Most of that is fueled by drugs with the occasional true sicko tossed in the mix. Making a firearm illegal does absolutely nothing. Dope is illegal yet I can get whatever I want less than 30 min from my front door. I'd rather not fistfight the crackhead with the knife, or even the crackhead with a gun. I can out-think, out-move and out-shoot 90% of the population. I simply refuse to throw myself on the mercy of those who have none.

While I love Posh to death- I am glad, TRULY glad, she has not had to face the harsh realities of what people do to each other and I pray she never does.

Some of us (Anubis, Guacano and Novesh for example) have seen it up close and personal. I've seen mass graves and smelled that smell that lives inside you forever. I've seen entire families killed by a single intruder and dealt with the aftermath of a home invasion gang rape; but I have also seen a dead skell in a hallway with a scared citizen holding a firearm. I know which way I'd rather have an incident work out.

As for my child, I would rather him be EDUCATED about firearms, to know their inherent destructive power and that people don't respawn after a .45 to the dome like in Call of Duty. I want him to look at a firearm as a tool and not something "cool" to be f**ked with when a parent or adult is not around. I want him to know that if someone is playing with a gun or finds one, he should leave the area, find an adult and tell them what is going on. Education trumps ignorance every.... single.... last.... time.... period.

I want my wife to know she won't have to wait 3-5 minutes for the cops to show up if someone kicks in the front door, she can deal with the situation immediately.

Again I prefer not to have my family dependant on mercy from those who have none.

I do however respect her point of view and her decision to not own a firearm is hers and hers alone. I just do not wish for others to force a false worldview of this supposed peace, love and farfegnugen that we supposedly have in the US. Reality intrudes on my life quite a bit and I will choose to carry or not to carry a weapon myself- it is not anyone's place to choose FOR me.

"Si vis pacem, para bellum" Those who wish peace prepare for war. Just as valid now as it was 2000 years ago. I've seen organized war and random civilian violence up close and personal. I have taken life in defense of myself and others not just here but in the States.

It is in NO way pretty, or full of glory or to be crowed about over drinks. It is a deeply moving event. It wasn't fun, or a "rush".

All in all, I am glad I was armed at the time because if I was not, I would not be here typing and my wife would be a widow and my son without a father.

[painm8ker]

Lets say someone like me, with my degree of training was determined to kill you- even without a firearm. Let's say a knife, or even less offensive- a baseball bat. What is the best response?

Call the police- I've turned your head into a canoe before you hit the last "1" in 911

Run- I routinely do 5:30 miles and can sprint quite well. You [might] get away if you're lucky and I'm tired

Back up 4 quick steps and draw a firearm- The sight of the firearm backs me off, and if it doesn't two center of mass and one cranio-ocular tops me. In addition reaction gaps favor the intial move, so you drawing the weapon is completed before I can backswing.

Um yeah, OK maybe but who knows, I am pretty spry :-) and I am from Long Island too, but fantasy land fights are not real stick to the facts please


The FBI UCR (Uniform Crime Report) for 2006 shows the defensive usage of firearms 1,188,607 times (reported to local PD). According to you- over 1.2 million people died in the US last year from shooting family members. Laughable. Do some research prior to spouting off statistics and BTW Dr. Trent Lott has completely discredited the study from which that piece of rhetoric came from and the authors themselves have apologized and said their research was designed to produce a certain result.

Did Trent Lott suggest that in a country that had 1.4 million violent crimes 1.2 million of them were fought off with privately owned guns? I don't know where you got that statistic but the 2006 UCR says

An estimated 1,417,745 violent crimes occurred nationwide in 2006.
In 2006, firearms were used in 67.9 percent of the Nations murders, in 42.2 percent of the robbery offenses, and in 21.9 percent of the aggravated assaults. (Weapon data are not collected for forcible rape offenses.)
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offe...ime/index.html

The UCR does not even collect statistics about self defense. You are reading very bad NRA rhetoric.




Ah- so the 1st Amendment should only apply to a moveable typeface printing press and quill pens. Plus the 4th and 6th should only apply to your actual person and home, allowing warrantless searches of you e-mail and interception of telephone conversations. None of those were around when the Constitution was framed (please note capitalization of Constitution). In addition a chemical weapon is regulated by international treaties and is an indiscrimate weapon similar to explosive devices. "Arms" in the frame of the Constitution were weapons commonly employed by civilian infantry raised in time of war. Rifles and handguns predominantly but a shotgun showed up on occasion.

Agreed Flint lock's, are cool everything else is fair game
As a side note the word "regulated" does NOT mean Federally controlled. The word in the 1700's meant drilled or trained.


So we do not have thieves, kidnappers, rapists and murderers in the United States? Thank GOD! All the cops can go home and we'll all sit around sipping decaf vente vanilla chais at Starbucks and share a group hug! Hallelujah- Paradise on Earth- right in downtown Washington DC (oh wait can't go there after dark- wonder why since we have no murderers, kidnappers or rapists).

I was a cop for 13 years and the best thing going is an armed populace. Even Colin Ferguson stated he chose NY to go on a rampage because he KNEW nobody would have a firearm and be able to stop him. My wife carries a .38 Airweight and I feel better knowing she does. I will never subscribe to a theory that says it is perfectly OK for a 110 pound woman to fistfight a 280 pound rapist.

Of course we have that here, I live in NY (I am from LI also) but its about percentages, if you run your life around a 1 in a million event your not being very smart. Colin F was a Psycho it happens its VERY VERY rare if that's the basis of your argument for unilateral gun ownership your just looking for any excuse because you like guns.


Well since more people are killed yearly with blunt instruments than with firearms- nobody should have one. Sorry Home Depot and Louisville Slugger. More people are manually killed each year than with erroneously named "assault weapons" so nobody should have hands and feet. Well just the police and the Army- they're the only ones who really need them.

Yeah sorry wrong again Guns almost 70 % read the report you quoted

In a perfect world, there would be no use for a firearm for defensive purposes. We do not however live in a perfect world. I've seen depravity in the States that outshines what I see here in Iraq. Most of that is fueled by drugs with the occasional true sicko tossed in the mix. Making a firearm illegal does absolutely nothing. Dope is illegal yet I can get whatever I want less than 30 min from my front door. I'd rather not fistfight the crackhead with the knife, or even the crackhead with a gun. I can out-think, out-move and out-shoot 90% of the population. I simply refuse to throw myself on the mercy of those who have none.
You can't grow guns, Guns are not addictive, While I agree a black market would always exist its much easier to control when walmart does not sell them at discount prices. Lets face it most of the violent criminals aren't in the upper income brackets, if guns are expensive because they are illegal they will be less pervasive
While I love Posh to death- I am glad, TRULY glad, she has not had to face the harsh realities of what people do to each other and I pray she never does.

Some of us (Anubis, Guacano and Novesh for example) have seen it up close and personal. I've seen mass graves and smelled that smell that lives inside you forever. I've seen entire families killed by a single intruder and dealt with the aftermath of a home invasion gang rape; but I have also seen a dead skell in a hallway with a scared citizen holding a firearm. I know which way I'd rather have an incident work out.

As for my child, I would rather him be EDUCATED about firearms, to know their inherent destructive power and that people don't respawn after a .45 to the dome like in Call of Duty. I want him to look at a firearm as a tool and not something "cool" to be f**ked with when a parent or adult is not around. I want him to know that if someone is playing with a gun or finds one, he should leave the area, find an adult and tell them what is going on. Education trumps ignorance every.... single.... last.... time.... period.

I want my wife to know she won't have to wait 3-5 minutes for the cops to show up if someone kicks in the front door, she can deal with the situation immediately.

Again I prefer not to have my family dependant on mercy from those who have none.

I do however respect her point of view and her decision to not own a firearm is hers and hers alone. I just do not wish for others to force a false worldview of this supposed peace, love and farfegnugen that we supposedly have in the US. Reality intrudes on my life quite a bit and I will choose to carry or not to carry a weapon myself- it is not anyone's place to choose FOR me.
OK well I respect your point of view even though its based on a lot of incorrect facts, do us both a favor and read the UCR. I spent many years in the Middle East most recently from Oct 2001 until June of 2003 working for the military and saw the cruel side of life, I lived in South and Central America for years, again with the Military, and saw unimaginable violence and poverty, I grew up in NY and saw and read many things daily about violence in the US every cop I know here in NY screams for better gun control not sure where you were a cop but its a surprising point of view.

"Si vis pacem, para bellum" Those who wish peace prepare for war. Just as valid now as it was 2000 years ago. I've seen organized war and random civilian violence up close and personal. I have taken life in defense of myself and others not just here but in the States.

In ancient Rome it was illegal to even wear a uniform in the city of Rome let alone carry a weapon. I agree with this, kill as many as you want over there but don't bring it back with you. yes there was still violence in the city things were far safer then any place else.

It is in NO way pretty, or full of glory or to be crowed about over drinks. It is a deeply moving event. It wasn't fun, or a "rush".

All in all, I am glad I was armed at the time because if I was not, I would not be here typing and my wife would be a widow and my son without a father.

God speed coming home, I know how hard that is, being away and getting that call from home about a noise in the middle of the night and feeling helpless.

[skitoolong]

Lets say someone like me, with my degree of training was determined to kill you- even without a firearm. Let's say a knife, or even less offensive- a baseball bat. What is the best response?

Call the police- I've turned your head into a canoe before you hit the last "1" in 911

Run- I routinely do 5:30 miles and can sprint quite well. You [might] get away if you're lucky and I'm tired

Back up 4 quick steps and draw a firearm- The sight of the firearm backs me off, and if it doesn't two center of mass and one cranio-ocular tops me. In addition reaction gaps favor the intial move, so you drawing the weapon is completed before I can backswing.




The FBI UCR (Uniform Crime Report) for 2006 shows the defensive usage of firearms 1,188,607 times (reported to local PD). According to you- over 1.2 million people died in the US last year from shooting family members. Laughable. Do some research prior to spouting off statistics and BTW Dr. Trent Lott has completely discredited the study from which that piece of rhetoric came from and the authors themselves have apologized and said their research was designed to produce a certain result.




Ah- so the 1st Amendment should only apply to a moveable typeface printing press and quill pens. Plus the 4th and 6th should only apply to your actual person and home, allowing warrantless searches of you e-mail and interception of telephone conversations. None of those were around when the Constitution was framed (please note capitalization of Constitution). In addition a chemical weapon is regulated by international treaties and is an indiscrimate weapon similar to explosive devices. "Arms" in the frame of the Constitution were weapons commonly employed by civilian infantry raised in time of war. Rifles and handguns predominantly but a shotgun showed up on occasion.

As a side note the word "regulated" does NOT mean Federally controlled. The word in the 1700's meant drilled or trained.




So we do not have thieves, kidnappers, rapists and murderers in the United States? Thank GOD! All the cops can go home and we'll all sit around sipping decaf vente vanilla chais at Starbucks and share a group hug! Hallelujah- Paradise on Earth- right in downtown Washington DC (oh wait can't go there after dark- wonder why since we have no murderers, kidnappers or rapists).

I was a cop for 13 years and the best thing going is an armed populace. Even Colin Ferguson stated he chose NY to go on a rampage because he KNEW nobody would have a firearm and be able to stop him. My wife carries a .38 Airweight and I feel better knowing she does. I will never subscribe to a theory that says it is perfectly OK for a 110 pound woman to fistfight a 280 pound rapist.




Well since more people are killed yearly with blunt instruments than with firearms- nobody should have one. Sorry Home Depot and Louisville Slugger. More people are manually killed each year than with erroneously named "assault weapons" so nobody should have hands and feet. Well just the police and the Army- they're the only ones who really need them.

In a perfect world, there would be no use for a firearm for defensive purposes. We do not however live in a perfect world. I've seen depravity in the States that outshines what I see here in Iraq. Most of that is fueled by drugs with the occasional true sicko tossed in the mix. Making a firearm illegal does absolutely nothing. Dope is illegal yet I can get whatever I want less than 30 min from my front door. I'd rather not fistfight the crackhead with the knife, or even the crackhead with a gun. I can out-think, out-move and out-shoot 90% of the population. I simply refuse to throw myself on the mercy of those who have none.

While I love Posh to death- I am glad, TRULY glad, she has not had to face the harsh realities of what people do to each other and I pray she never does.

Some of us (Anubis, Guacano and Novesh for example) have seen it up close and personal. I've seen mass graves and smelled that smell that lives inside you forever. I've seen entire families killed by a single intruder and dealt with the aftermath of a home invasion gang rape; but I have also seen a dead skell in a hallway with a scared citizen holding a firearm. I know which way I'd rather have an incident work out.

As for my child, I would rather him be EDUCATED about firearms, to know their inherent destructive power and that people don't respawn after a .45 to the dome like in Call of Duty. I want him to look at a firearm as a tool and not something "cool" to be f**ked with when a parent or adult is not around. I want him to know that if someone is playing with a gun or finds one, he should leave the area, find an adult and tell them what is going on. Education trumps ignorance every.... single.... last.... time.... period.

I want my wife to know she won't have to wait 3-5 minutes for the cops to show up if someone kicks in the front door, she can deal with the situation immediately.

Again I prefer not to have my family dependant on mercy from those who have none.

I do however respect her point of view and her decision to not own a firearm is hers and hers alone. I just do not wish for others to force a false worldview of this supposed peace, love and farfegnugen that we supposedly have in the US. Reality intrudes on my life quite a bit and I will choose to carry or not to carry a weapon myself- it is not anyone's place to choose FOR me.

"Si vis pacem, para bellum" Those who wish peace prepare for war. Just as valid now as it was 2000 years ago. I've seen organized war and random civilian violence up close and personal. I have taken life in defense of myself and others not just here but in the States.

It is in NO way pretty, or full of glory or to be crowed about over drinks. It is a deeply moving event. It wasn't fun, or a "rush".

All in all, I am glad I was armed at the time because if I was not, I would not be here typing and my wife would be a widow and my son without a father.

[superdave]

I understand your point but it's necessary to look at the bigger picture especially when dealing with kids and weapons. These toy guns are and expression of hatred, and that hatred is not something that parents alone are responsible for.

[Posh]

I understand your point but it's necessary to look at the bigger picture especially when dealing with kids and weapons. These toy guns are and expression of hatred, and that hatred is not something that parents alone are responsible for.

I didn't think I would have to point this out but they're not all toys and they're not all from one country.

There's Uruguay, Cambodia, Myanmar, Angola, Rwanda, United States, Slovenia, Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Pakistan, India and Nepal. I asked for pictures from everywhere with guns that were real and toys. The toy guns look very similar to real guns; they aren't designed in unrealistic colors like red or yellow. You cannot tell and that's why I asked for the mix. Can you tell which are real and which are fake, besides the ones that are captioned as such?

[SFA437]

Can you tell which are real and which are fake, besides the ones that are captioned as such?

I can identify each and every toy, as well as the weapon it was based on- but I am somewhat uniquely qualified to do so

[Posh]

Lets say someone like me, with my degree of training was determined to kill you- even without a firearm. Let's say a knife, or even less offensive- a baseball bat. What is the best response?

Who's going to stand there and not try to defend their lives against imminent danger? You don't need a gun for that. Sometimes you need the strength and will to survive.

Shooting at the walls of heartache, bang bang. I AM the warrior.

So we do not have thieves, kidnappers, rapists and murderers in the United States? Thank GOD! All the cops can go home and we'll all sit around sipping decaf vente vanilla chais at Starbucks and share a group hug! Hallelujah- Paradise on Earth- right in downtown Washington DC (oh wait can't go there after dark- wonder why since we have no murderers, kidnappers or rapists).

Uh, DC isn't THAT bad. I feel safe there. I do know guy friends who have been mugged in Georgetown and Charles Village, Baltimore. In all honesty, the guys I know who got mugged could've been mugged by Elmo or Cookie Monster. I mean these are your typical yuppies or hipsters. They just have "victimize me" written all over them.

Me and my girls put on our b*tch face and go to town, without men around. You don't need a gun when you have on your b*tch face. You better recognize!

I was a cop for 13 years and the best thing going is an armed populace. Even Colin Ferguson stated he chose NY to go on a rampage because he KNEW nobody would have a firearm and be able to stop him. My wife carries a .38 Airweight and I feel better knowing she does. I will never subscribe to a theory that says it is perfectly OK for a 110 pound woman to fistfight a 280 pound rapist.

A gun is not going to stop a determined 280 pound man from raping a 110 pound woman. My mom has had patients who had guns, on their person and in their homes, and knew how to use them who were still victims of sexual assault, both by strangers and people they knew. She now has to help them cope with feelings powerlessness and fear. A few of these people now realize that a gun doesn't guarantee ANYTHING. And it's not because my mom told that's how they should feel; because my parents own ONE handgun (my mom's not a hypocritical member of the psychology field). I honestly don't think I've seen it since they bought it for "protection," at my father's behest.

A gun DOES NOT make you automatically safe. But that it does is what I hear from gun proponents all the time and there's evidence everywhere to the contrary. It provides "safety," a false sense of safety, yes. If you don't feel safe enough just armed with your wits, since most times that's all the "weapon" we have, then nothing is going to make you feel secure. I

As for my child, I would rather him be EDUCATED about firearms, to know their inherent destructive power and that people don't respawn after a .45 to the dome like in Call of Duty. I want him to look at a firearm as a tool

Um, I don't think most kids believe a gun "respawns" in real life like in the VIDEO GAME "Call of Duty."

A gun isn't a "tool." A band saw is a tool. A gun is an istrument designed and devised with only ONE real purpose: to destroy and end life. That's why they were invented and that's continue to be made. Why does everybody glass over this fact like it doesn't exist?

There's a LOT of money to be made in making things that destroy life instead of preserving it