Baby, Give It Up!: Everybody wants you . . .

[AustinTech]

I think a thread on atheism/religion would be a great idea, as long as people can keep their cool. That isn't always easy to do, usually the mudslinging starts pretty quickly.

I agree with Jackjo's comments that men are less likely than women to be believers in a God. Like Jackjo, I think, from personal experience, one of the primary barriers to belief in God is pride and control. Men do not want to give up the idea that they are completely independent, self-made men, nor do they want to lose the ability to do whatever, whenever. This is true for both sexes, but men especially.

I am a Christian and have been for about 8 years. I've spent most of my life as an Atheist. My parents still are, and they think I am nuts. I wasn't brainwashed, encouraged, or influenced toward Christianity in any way. Matter of fact, I said most of the same things Atheists say about God.

As far as charity goes - I keep my work and amount of donations to myself. I don't give or work out of guilt, or the desire to store up treasures in Heaven, I do things because I feel God's love in my life every day. I know I don't deserve that love. I want other people, believers or not, to feel loved, even if/when they don't deserve it. I don't really feel good about myself when I am done giving or working for a charity. I don't really feel much difference in myself at all, just still loved, thankful, and humbled.

I do believe that you can store up "treasures" in Heaven, but I have no idea what that means. Nor do I care. My treasure will be an eternity in Heaven with my Creator. As the good book says, "In Him you are complete!"

[mingus2112]

I think some men steer towards atheism because we don't want anyone or anything to have dominion over our lives or to admit that we are created beings.

I think it would be much easier for me to just let go and say that god's behind everything, has my back and has control of everything. It's both scary and comforting to believe that my decisions are my own and that I have a lot to do with my own well being. Has nothing to do with being macho. Be careful how you phrase such things.

I agree with you, Posh, that we could probably get into a good discussion on the religion thing. The problem is, as someone mentioned, when feelings are hurt. That's when pot shots are taken, flame wars start, etc. I'm actually QUITE impressed that hasn't happened yet! Maybe it's because repgeek is such a respectful community.. .or maybe it's because we're just flirting with the topic. Either way, i'm hesitant.

Reading through the off-topic forum is a hoot. One time i'll read someones post and think he/she is a complete idiot. . .and then 2 hours later i read a completely intelligent and thought provoking post by the same person. It just goes to show that we have a pretty diverse group around here, and that we're not afraid to speak WHATEVER's on our mind. We all have different beliefs. . .and that's cool.

So here's my controversial statement for the day: I don't feel the need to respect ANYBODY's beliefs at face value just it's because it's what they believe. I DO, however, feel the tremendous need to respect EVERYONE's feelings. . .which is what keeps me from going down "that road." I would call that "showing respect" for the person. I think that's important in ANY community (online or otherwise!)

-J

[Jackjo]

We are all adult enough here to have a debate/discussion without flaming or hurting each other feelings. I am glad to be a part of a community with many veiwpoints that we can learn and experience from.

As far as charity goes - I keep my work and amount of donations to myself. I don't give or work out of guilt, or the desire to store up treasures in Heaven, I do things because I feel God's love in my life every day. I know I don't deserve that love. I want other people, believers or not, to feel loved, even if/when they don't deserve it. I don't really feel good about myself when I am done giving or working for a charity. I don't really feel much difference in myself at all, just still loved, thankful, and humbled.

Beautifully said AT.

[Kollektor]

Countdown to lockdown 10...9...8... LOL

[Brightlight]

As Karl Marx said -

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Couldn't have put it any beter myself!

[Posh]

As Karl Marx said -

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Couldn't have put it any beter myself!

That's the name of my new book: Winning Through To Yourself: A Marxist's Guide to Masturbation.

I'm teasing. My new book is actually called I. Kant Hear You: Posh, Metaphysics & You.

[merkman]

No mention of an award for this post?

[jaross]

Oddly enough, I think it takes courageous man to believe in something he cannot quantify, especially in this world of wonders we live in now. It's MUCH easier now to deny existence of G-d than say in the Sparta of antiquity. That's interesting and telling.

I do not see your logic here. I think it takes courage to stand up to the moral majority, to defy the norm, and to defy what has been ingrained in western culture for so long (and as time has passed, a higher percentage have turned to religion since the creation of the united states)

Anyway, I think overall, with the average religious person (one who in my opinion has no understanding of what their religion actually says) religion has hurt the way we as humans treat each other. On that basis, we would not need charity to the extent that we do. In tribal culture if a member of society was to fall behind, individuals would help them on a personal level. Now, with religion as a backbone, we have a society where the majority of people believe that if someone is in a rough spot or they can't find a job it is because they do not have the work ethic and god has punished them for some reason. This is a huge lie and I just can't stand this type of thought. Based on this, people get left behind and religion (*in part) is there to pick up the pieces. So, religion has done good and bad things but I would argue that overall it has done more bad then good and we would not need it to do the good things if it was not for the bad things which it has done. Again, let me stress that this is from people using religion to manipulate society, and the basis of most (all the religions I know of) religion is very sound and in good intention. Never the less, it is human nature to find a system of thought, and use it as a tool for our own advantage.

I don't know of the name for what it is I believe, so here it is: I do good things because I feel good about myself. I think that it is possible that there is some sort of collective energy which I can be a positive part of when I do good things. I believe in not screwing over my neighbor because in the most traditional thought, he or she is all I have and by nature, we humans are tribal. We were not meant to live the way modern society is laid out. Lastly, one specific I can say about my beliefs, is that I know that there is no one god in the image of man.