They Won't Leave in the Night: Diamonds Are ForNEVER!

[AustinTech]

From what I can tell - the net effect of quality jewelry grade diamonds - has been an increase in human suffering. Getting the diamonds can be horrific for people, and there is no telling the amount of resources used to pay for what is basically a rock.

There are good things about diamonds and the industry isn't all bad, but the NET effect seems to be suffering.

[Mason]

The economical part is most important to me...if the quality is excellent and the price is 1/20 I may start buying some bling like Dave just for the fun of it. However, at this time I have absolutely no need for diamonds (blood or other). When I purchased my wife's engagement ring and anniversary ring the stones came from the Canadian arctic.

WRT Africa...If we follow your logic an all-out blockade/embargo will be required to ensure we are not doing any business that may help African warlords. We should also stop sending aide because much of it is diverted by the warlords.

As I said before I don't really care what they do over there...they have to sort it out themselves because no one else can.

The review provided was excellent and well written. We all appreciate the time and effort that Posh put into this review. I agree that the cheaper high quality alternatives to overpriced diamonds are a great thing for everyone...linking Africa to this wonderful product is not necessary in my opinion.

This will be my last post in this thread...hope you all have a great day.

[SFA437]

Any time there is vast amounts of money to be made in areas of the world nobody essentially cares about, abuse will occur.

Whether it is Columbians being forced by FARC to mine emeralds or Africans being forced to mine diamonds- the outcome is essentially identical.

As I have said, I've been to West Africa a few times. Makes Iraq look like a cakewalk. The level of daily violence is ASTOUNDING- to the point of cannibalism of live people somewhat commonplace.

A lot of that is fueled by quests for power and control, which is financed with diamonds. A couple of ridiculously wealthy Afrikkaners and Russians insist on telling us diamonds have value. There are still places you can scoop them out of the sand bare handed (if you could gain access without the field security shootin your ass).

Now there are alternatives and REAL diamonds are being grown in labs. Why bother with mined stones when you can get the same stone for 1/3 the price. Isn't that why we buy reps?

I started with reps because I don't want to beat the hell out of my gens in the sandbox. Then I thought- well these are so close- I can get 95% of the look for 1/10th the price! With diamonds you can get 100% of the look for 1/3 the price. Sounds like a deal to me!

[Posh]

It's good to see the post is not only helping people look fantastic but also getting good conversation started about the state of many Third World countries and their means of supporting their real and pseudo-governments. I was speaking specifically about diamonds and sub-Saharan Africa, but as far as other mined gems go in other countries, conditions and abuses are the similar and sometimes worse.

And Mason, the diamond industry is notoriously secretive and has all the transparency of a block of obsidian. There is a practice called "diamond laundering" that makes sure that diamonds from any country's conflict zones or with a very shady provenance, can appear to come from other places, including Canada.

So-called Canadian diamonds are what a lot of people are looking for but most diamonds still come from either the diamond stockpile in London (millions of carats here) which in turn came from Africa, stones that are from far grislier times than even these. Canada's output is not exactly what it at first appears. It's like when the OPEC nations say they have X number of barrels in the 1980s and somehow this numbers rises in the new millennium when it is known that, geologically, numbers of barrels are down all over the world. Canadian diamonds didn't all of sudden supplant African stones. It seems that way because the cartel wants it to seem that way. African stones still account for the lion's share of the market.

If you can't be sure, pass. Like I said and SFA agreed, you have non-mined options now so why bother.

[roflwaffle]

You know, it's still in its infancy. They are up against a behemoth like the DeBeers which has what will be close to 100 years worth of advertising and Pink Floyd's The Wall-style brainwashing to combat. It'll be tough. People aren't used to thinking critically or finding things out for themselves.

You know, synthetic diamonds have been around for 100 years as well.. but maybe early ones were 'ugly' and not suitable for jewerly, but I'm quite positive that the technology has been around forever.

i remember back in college that making synthetic diamonds was cake.. they had talked about helping out a HS student for a science fair make up some synethetic diamonds (again, those were def not 'pretty ones').. not even joking...

but weird that the technology has been around so long (or at least that more effort wasnt made to make them up to jewelers quality, given the vast amount of money involved).

I mean, just weird. You'd think, given prices, that a better solution would have come about a lot sooner, and also just spanked the pants off debeers (despite their marketing).

[Posh]

Diamond culturing, as the type I originally posted about, is relatively new in the jewelry industry. The diamonds made up until recently were not gem quality and small, suitable for commercial applications only. Crystals of the size needed for cutting and polishing in fine jewelry were not possible to make in the quantities needed to make it profitable.

But yes, the technology needed to make diamonds has been extant since about the 1950s. The machines used by the company Gemesis were developed by the Soviets and used during the Cold War. After the fall, the machines, which were treated as state secrets before, were wholesale sold off to anyone. DeBeers tried to prevent this and thought that the machines would "disappear." The founder of Gemesis heard about the sale and managed to get several machines and further refined the technology to turn it into the cultured diamond company we see now. Gemesis specializes mainly in fancy colored stones. Apollo does more clear stones. They are considered leaders in the field but not the pioneers. That distinction goes to Takara, a Japanese company.

Hopefully the Japanese won't do to cultured diamonds what they did pearls! A strand of Mikimoto cultured, perfect pearls can cost as much, if not more, than natural pearls! LOL

[jaykeem]

Totally agree about the cultured diamonds...my significant other doesnt want a mined diamond because of what those people go through to get them, its ridiculous. I'm glad that there are alternatives to the 'standard' rep or not having that option available is great

[mrs-h-]

Hi,

Im new here and this is only my 2nd post, but i have purchased an Asha (better than diamonds cz) and it looks exactly like a diamond, there are a few jewelers in the US who participate on the BTD (better than diamond) forum, i have purchased 3 rings and i pendant and all have been perfect, now the jewelery isnt exactly cheap but its beautiful and extremely beleivable, in fact thats how i found this site, from someone at BTD, i have 1 Asha in an "H" colour and it looks just like the diamonds i already had, i had my Asha set into a moissanite halo ring and its TDF, well, i think so anyway, jewelery and bags are kind of my thing as my long suffering DH will tell you , i wont mention where i got my rings and pendant from as im not sure if im allowed to but if anyone is looking for some diamond sims have a look at the Betterthandiamond.com forum.

[socaligurl80]

Posh, have you tried www.carat.cc ?

[Posh]

Posh, have you tried www.carat.cc ?

Socal, I have not had any direct experience with Carat myself. Their website and some of their designs are amazing, no doubt. But the stones, from what I gather from posters at Betterthandiamond.com, are high quality but regular CZs. They have not been treated in any way like the Asha stones. The technology behind the Asha stones ensures they stay looking like day one and they offer a warranty that reflects that. Carat doesn't to my knowledge. But try them out .let us know if they are any good, both when you get them and long term

Baghandler bought the Martini studs recently. Ask her about how she likes them.

[socaligurl80]

oh wow.. those are beautiful!!

but really pricey

[Posh]

Sometimes, if you dig in their forum, they trade for less than retail between members. They sell and do not do as much trading as here, if any. Jewelry is an impossible thing to trade.

[archeion]

Wow, the quoted article from The Atlantic is dated 1982! AT the end they are pretty much predicting the fall of De Beers, but De Beers still seems to be doing well to me. I haven't followed the long term price of diamonds, but I don't recall hearing about a diamond crash. Has anyone followed De Beers exploits since 1982? The fact that advertisers, bankers and governments can brainwash entire populations this way makes my stomach turn. Am I wrong when I think that most of us have probably bought into their schemes in one way or another? I know many of you are married. Did you buy a diamond?

[socaligurl80]

I'm about to get engaged and I don't want a diamond. As Posh says, that doesn't show how much I'm loved or not.

Of course I want a big bling, but I don't see why I'd have to pay 20k to get it at tiffany u know? a Nice CZ bling should be ok, as diamond are NOT forever and PLUS, those get dirty too (from what I've seen on the jewelry i own)

[Posh]

Good going, Socal! Supporting an industry steeped in human rights violation, MAJOR price fixing and, as Archeion agreed, brainwashing is not in my list of things to do, EVER. There's so many more sustainable and ethically sound options to go on supporting these people. If oil producers could have done what DeBeers managed to do, we'd all be walking or riding bicycles right now.

Anyway, the article is from 1982, Archeion, but it is world famous and used in any article or book that references the diamond industry, usually in a negative way. It is one of the first articles published by a major magazine that told some history of the diamond cartel and is actual critical of it, even if a bit indirect. If you did not read it in its entirety, I suggest you do. It's a great and interesting read if not especially quick at close to ten pages in small font.

[SFA437]

Congrats socal on both the upcoming marriage and a good choice in passing on the traditional diamond!

I have an all-things-green fetish and have been looking really hard at seeded emeralds. Always passed on a platinum and emerald ring (emerald cut 2.5 ct or so single stone) for 2 reasons:

Cost
Misery factor

Seeded stones eliminate both

@Posh-

Never said it but thanks for posting this topic.

I imagine most people reading this kind of brush off the suffering of forced mining and the result of profits to the local Idi Amin wannabes. I could post stills from our dashcams and photos we took while we were in West Africa but I'd probably be banned.

As bad as the pictures are, seeing it first hand is another. "Blood Diamond" didn't even SCRATCH the surface.

I make my living doing things no sane individual would do in countries no sane individual would be in if he/she had a choice. What I saw there scarred me for life and considering I've been on QRF/recovery details scooping up good friends into buckets that says a LOT. I won't buy a mined diamond- period- ever.

[Posh]

Congrats socal on both the upcoming marriage and a good choice in passing on the traditional diamond!

I have an all-things-green fetish and have been looking really hard at seeded emeralds. Always passed on a platinum and emerald ring (emerald cut 2.5 ct or so single stone) for 2 reasons:

Cost
Misery factor

Seeded stones eliminate both

@Posh-

Never said it but thanks for posting this topic.

I imagine most people reading this kind of brush off the suffering of forced mining and the result of profits to the local Idi Amin wannabes. I could post stills from our dashcams and photos we took while we were in West Africa but I'd probably be banned.

As bad as the pictures are, seeing it first hand is another. "Blood Diamond" didn't even SCRATCH the surface.

I make my living doing things no sane individual would do in countries no sane individual would be in if he/she had a choice. What I saw there scarred me for life and considering I've been on QRF/recovery details scooping up good friends into buckets that says a LOT. I won't buy a mined diamond- period- ever.

Thanks for supporting the content of the thread. I imagine that what you've seen has greatly altered your view on life, humanity, mortality and may have even rocked your faith, for better or worse. My view on the military (and the ensuing industrial complex) and war would be considered by you as far, far, FAR left but its well-formed. I would show you my sword but I've returned it for a much blunter ploughshare.

I'm not about high style at any cost.

[SFA437]

Posh-

One can agree to disagree on any given topic. My views on the military differ greatly from war. Unfortunately, the need for both will never end- it's why communism failed. Great concept except for one major flaw- human beings. Someone will always be willing to take by force from those who cannot or will not defend themselves. That is why rough men stand ready to do violence on your behalf.

I swore an oath before my God a long time ago and hold to that and a few simple core values:
Truth
Integrity
Honor
Loyalty

Everything I do is shot through those prisms before I act. Makes my life kind of smooth actually- there'd be a lot less need for the military, police etc. if everyone did the same.

Someone's perception of me is usually VASTLY different from reality. Then again I couldn't give a rodent's burro what people's perception is. Those I choose to associate with do and the rest do not matter. I think you've gotten a bit of insight

That is neither here nor there however but does have a bearing on this thread. My values do not ALLOW me to purchase a mined stone, even if I wanted to. I know you know exactly what I mean as do others. For those who aren't catching on- wait 20 years and you will.

[mrs-h-]

Socali - Havre you thought about Moissanite for your engagement ring, it is extremely beautiful IRL and in the smaller sizes (below 1.5 carats IMO) it looks and performs just like a diamond, i have a moissanite halo ring with an Asha centre, i chose Asha because i wanted a larger centre stone and i was scared the double refraction would be really noticeable in the 3 carat size, the dealers i got my ring from do Asha and Moissanite, i have a couple of the Interlap stones too, they are what Carat uses i beleive.

If you have a look on the Betterthandiamond site there are a few vendors there, 2 of which i have bought from and would reccomend, dont know if i can mention them by name so if you want them you can PM me, the trick to people beleiving its real is to pick a fabulous setting and select a sim in the colour of diamond you could afford to buy IRL, you probably already know this, do you know what kind of ring you would like? theres loads of different styles on the BTD site and also on Pricescope, they both have loads of wonderful eyecandy for you to look at.

Sorry for waffling but i love my sim jewelery.


p.s., i wear my Moissy/Asha ring with my diamond wedding band almost every day and you cannot tell the difference

[LifterCatcher]

Wow this thread is great, I have been talking with the lady about Moissy and she like it a lot. She does not care if it is a diamond just as long as it is pretty how does moissy comapare to Asha®?>

[Posh]

Mrs. H, I agree with you wholeheartedly and believe you are absolutely right. Getting a ring in settings and sizes that match your lifestyle is best. That's not to say that a person who lives very modestly couldn't afford a ginormous rock. If you live frugally but have style and everything about you is in order, you will never look like you can't afford whatever you're wearing. Unless it is a Patek Phillippe Grand Complication and you get out of an Accord. In the words of the inexplicable Luman, "I ain't tronna haddat!"

Catcher, moissanite is a nice stone but you definitely want to stick to the smaller sizes and get an Asha® for any larger stones. The refractory index of a moissanite stone is much higher than diamond which, in larger sizes in, say, a Hearts & Arrows cut, for example, becomes terribly noticeable. It blings like crazy, which is great to the eye, but the believability of the ring is harmed. Also, a green tint is noticeable in certain lighting situations. It doesn't happen all the time but it could happen in inopportune moments.

A combination of Asha® and moissanite would look fantastic. Mrs. H, is it possible you have some pictures of your ring you could share with everyone?

[Kollektor]

I understand you concern for the africans negatively affected by the blood diamond trade..but where is you concern for child labor in china...probably many of our reps are manufactured by children working in sweat shops? I don't really see a difference do you?


Don't get me wrong, I dont really care what they do in other countries...I was just asking the question

That's a myth, if you ask me. Another meme the companies plant in your head to make you feel like you're exploiting the downtrodden. In fact, you are putting money in their pockets... and I suspect they ain't kids, either.

[Posh]

That's a myth, if you ask me. Another meme the companies plant in your head to make you feel like you're exploiting the downtrodden. In fact, you are putting money in their pockets... and I suspect they ain't kids, either.

Right!? A child can't put together a watch. I said this in another thread but again: show me a child with hands steady enough to make a watch and I'll open a factory.

[quizvan]

Right!? A child can't put together a watch. I said this in another thread but again: show me a child with hands steady enough to make a watch and I'll open a factory.

I'd VC the factory.

[quizvan]

That's a myth, if you ask me. Another meme the companies plant in your head to make you feel like you're exploiting the downtrodden. In fact, you are putting money in their pockets... and I suspect they ain't kids, either.

Amen.
And -- have you noticed -- it's the design houses like Gucci, Prada, etc. which are covertly manufacturing in China which are most vehement about perpetuating that myth. Um -- if it's really children on the line making those replicas on the illegal 3rd shift, what makes anyone think that the workers are any older or legit on the first 2 "legit" shifts?...