Time Is On My Side: Passionné D’exception . . . (A Selection of Watches)

[merkman]

By the by, you changed my mind on the DeWitt. It's on the list.

R

I'm with you razor!!!

Posh - What can I say. Every time I think your incredibly smart and well versed, you turn around and blow us away AGAIN! If one of the admins doesn't give you another award for this post in the next 12 hours... the fix is on!!!

I've NEVER looked at DeWitt watches before, but never knew anything about them either. That FIRST one you mention is just amazing, and while I dunno if the gold version Perfect Clones has on their site is nearly as well done, I LOVE the fact that a "stitching" seems visible on the face. Makes it even more original and interesting to me. Think I might have to just buy this one, or at least add it to the list of favorites.

As for your skills... anyone who isn't impressed by now just doesn't see you as the expert we all know you are. I'm bowing right now btw, so please let me know when I can stop! Just sensational stuff that only gets better! Bravo and top notch!!!

[Posh]

I'm with you razor!!!

Posh - What can I say. Every time I think your incredibly smart and well versed, you turn around and blow us away AGAIN! If one of the admins doesn't give you another award for this post in the next 12 hours... the fix is on!!!

I've NEVER looked at DeWitt watches before, but never knew anything about them either. That FIRST one you mention is just amazing, and while I dunno if the gold version Perfect Clones has on their site is nearly as well done, I LOVE the fact that a "stitching" seems visible on the face. Makes it even more original and interesting to me. Think I might have to just buy this one, or at least add it to the list of favorites.

As for your skills... anyone who isn't impressed by now just doesn't see you as the expert we all know you are. I'm bowing right now btw, so please let me know when I can stop! Just sensational stuff that only gets better! Bravo and top notch!!!

Glad you liked it and glad you're considering DeWitt because of it. We should all be really thankful they are replicating high end brands like this. The technology has made it very possible for that to become a reality.

[normanduke]

Posh, You're a trip. Where have you been hiding ? I guess lost amongst a thousand overaged boys endlessly strutting their dreary machismo ( yawn ).

Thank you for this delightful oevre. I can sense the real fun you had writing this. It is valuable to have the benefit of someone's knowlege distilled and presented in an unpretentious and entertaining way.

I am finding myself drawn more and more to the luxury brands such as Breguet, VC and Patek Phillipe.
I sense inaccuracies in most of the reps but I lack the time now to do the necessary research. I did wonder if some of them are inappropriate to my rather humble day-to-day life but nowI think " no."

You did select one of my favorites, the Dewitt. Wonderful dial.

I do take exception though to the Roger Dubuis. Fabulous case, especiallly the back cover, but I don't understand that textured black stuff glued on between the lugs.

That Chopard Mille Migilia hasn't appealed to me yet but it looks very exciting in the picture on the fellow's wrist.
I wonder why the dealers pictures are always so dull and gray ?

You deserve a reward for being generous so I am forwarding some bona fide good Karma.
Keep your eyes peeled for a genuine Chanel suit in a Salvation Army store. Be patient ! It's a long way from Connecticut.

Norman

[swissaddict]

Does your day job involve getting paid by the word, by any chance?

[Jetzeus]

Posh,

How you can possibly make a watch review as riveting as an early Grisham novel is beyond me, but you did. I am terribly appreciative of this knowledge you have bestowed upon us. And your writing style?...perfect. There are no other words. I'm going to look harder at the DeWitt and Dubuis. Without this compilation, i never would have.

Thanks

I'm so tired from the poker marathon from last night...thankfully I'm not flying today. Good fun. Yet another thing to be thankful for besides this immaculate post.

Cheers, Ma'am.

[Posh]

Posh, You're a trip. Where have you been hiding ? I guess lost amongst a thousand overaged boys endlessly strutting their dreary machismo ( yawn ).

Thank you for this delightful oevre. I can sense the real fun you had writing this. It is valuable to have the benefit of someone's knowlege distilled and presented in an unpretentious and entertaining way.

I am finding myself drawn more and more to the luxury brands such as Breguet, VC and Patek Phillipe.
I sense inaccuracies in most of the reps but I lack the time now to do the necessary research. I did wonder if some of them are inappropriate to my rather humble day-to-day life but nowI think " no."

You did select one of my favorites, the Dewitt. Wonderful dial.

I do take exception though to the Roger Dubuis. Fabulous case, especiallly the back cover, but I don't understand that textured black stuff glued on between the lugs.

That Chopard Mille Migilia hasn't appealed to me yet but it looks very exciting in the picture on the fellow's wrist.
I wonder why the dealers pictures are always so dull and gray ?

You deserve a reward for being generous so I am forwarding some bona fide good Karma.
Keep your eyes peeled for a genuine Chanel suit in a Salvation Army store. Be patient ! It's a long way from Connecticut.

Norman

Chanel suit hiding in Salvation Army cast offs? I smell an O. Henry story coming on! Thank you for your compliment! I'll make a deal with you: if I write more, will you post more? Is that a bargain?

Glad you enjoyed the piece and are a DeWitt fan. He's quickly becoming a darling with connoisseurs and casual watch fans alike due to those absolutely unforgettable designs, intricate movements and dials. His attention to the overall presentation of the watch and what statement it makes as you view it is keen. It's impossible to read about these watches and view them in person without astonishment in how it came to be, like he created a new life. It sounds cliched but that the feeling I got when I held the watch. I wasn't holding just a watch: I was holding a piece of perfection. Not a lot of watches give off that aura. The more of his work I become familiar with, the more I am impressed.

The Dubuis' "black stuff" is actually carbon fiber for a jaunty effect.

With the Vacherons, Breguets and Pateks, there are inaccuracies, to be sure. They are less noticeable and apparent due to frequent model changes, especially in Breguet's and Patek's case. But all three of those houses do custom and have done custom work for centuries now, like Breguet and Vacheron. I would say of the three, spotting a Breguet replica is most difficult, unless you test the metal of the case; they almost never do steel cases in their Classique Simple, Heritage or Classique Grand Complications lines. And there has NEVER been a steel Special Creation.

I think as far drama goes, the Mille Miglia is ready to play the role. The font of the numbers, and colors are perfect for the effect; and the case, while not as small as other Mille Miglia pieces, is visually tight. So many other watches are lazy in their largeness and just visually meander. Not this watch!

All of these watches make a statement because each one was planned and designed from scratch, starting life simply as an idea in someone's mind and then transferred to paper, piece by piece. It seems everything that adorns their cases is there for a reason, with almost nothing that shouldn't be there. It's not a "simplicity for the sake of simplicity" type of look like Panerais. To me, Panerais are simple because they have nothing else to offer. There is no history to draw inspiration from and, like Mini Coopers, they are trapped in box they created for themselves. They COULD branch out but then you have "THE PURIST" (also known as THE @SS) who decides that all products that continue down that path aren't "true" whatever product we're speaking about. This happened most interestingly to Porsche when they introduced the Cayenne.

Pnaerais to me are the epitome of the statement made by the inimitable Getrude Stein in which she expressed this sentiment: "There is no there there."

And these aren't "busy" like a lot of Breitlings. There's attention to detail and "busy." I think most sensible with a little bit of eye can tell which is which. But, I must admit, I'll take "busy" over nothing any day. Happy, Dave?

[Posh]

Damn Posh.........outstanding!!!!!!

I read the whole thing

I kind of scared myself reading your fashion stuff.......manbags and such!!! I kept looking over my shoulder for boy's while reading those.

Very good......I bet you could make a living at this writing thing!!

By the way, it appears you are my 1000th........where's that hand clapping smiley ?

Thanks for letting be be your 1,000th! Thank you for reading it and enjoying it. That means alot!!

[Saltine]

Well, normally after spending that amount of time reading a post my first reaction would be "that poster just wasted 15min of my life that I'll never get back" but not this time. I enjoyed every minute.

I have had my eyes on both Patek's and Chopards since my first rep. This has given me that extra push to pursue one from each maker. Which brings up an interesting thought... did Josh/Andrew/Angus give you a bunch of models they want to push sales on and this is how you marketed them?

My only criticism is the Panerai talk. Look at the numbers on the DeWitts and Chopards... just as big. Rolex is stuck in a box as well, all their cases have the same lines. All the watch makers have things that make their watches look like their brand. Granted Panerai is a bit more subtle then most with the changes since they don't add blue dials, orange bezels, diamonds or two tones. I guess that goes with my style though. I don't wear a white shirt under a black suit then stick a bright busy tie on to make me stand out. I'll put on a tie with a subtle stripe in it matching pocket square. Top it off with a nice tie clip and/or pin on the shirt pocket. Without going on and on I'll just say "I get it" when it comes to PAMs.

All in all, this was a fantastic read. Your best yet, imo. I am looking forward to your post about PAMs when you finally "get it".

[Posh]

did Josh/Andrew/Angus give you a bunch of models they want to push sales on and this is how you marketed them?

My only criticism is the Panerai talk. Rolex is stuck in a box as well, all their cases have the same lines. All the watch makers have things that make their watches look like their brand. Granted Panerai is a bit more subtle then most with the changes since they don't add blue dials, orange bezels, diamonds or two tones.

I am looking forward to your post about PAMs when you finally "get it".

I wished I was getting kickbacks! You hear that Angus, Josh or Andrew? I'm for sale. YET AGAIN. Seriously, I'm glad you read it and enjoyed it!

As for Panerais, I do "get it" WITH SOME. I mentioned two I liked in the conclusion of my post. But, as I said, it's selective and those two are the only ones I've seen that offer anything in the way of actual design and visual appeal, with one of them being a complete flight of someone's imagination (which I commend him on). The Ferrari Panerais are wonderful. But Ferrari is known for spectacular design and the watch associated with those magicians from Maranello had better have that, which these particular models do.

But in regards to design, I'm like Britney Spears in Missouri:"Show Me and then Gimme More." To make this analogy accessible to whole other segment to the American Idol portion of America, I'll just says I'm like Simon Cowell.

I see mediocrity all the time and quite frankly it gets old which is why I demand something to be interesting. I mean this with books, music, art, etcetera. Something that looks like someone TOOK TIME to conceive it should be lauded.
I'm a fan of design. People sitting and thinking of ways to make a product either better performing or visually interesting deserve recognition. ****genization is HORRIBLE and I will rail against it whenever I can. Panerai is that scourge.

Rolex, like Louis Vuitton, is not really stuck in a box. They have achieved a level of brand recognition and profitability that allows them to be more creative than people think they could or should be. They can take chances and win with designs that step outside of their perceived "look". Rolex does it with designs like this:



Louis Vuitton sent shockwaves through the fashion industry with this, their most expensive and outrageous handbag ever created:




But it paid off for both brands because they sold out of the iteration of each. So, they may have core products and designs but they are not chained to them as much as you would think. They play with ideas of what their brands are and challenge perceptions of their marque continually, in many ways from sponsorships to advertising to products.

Patek could never do to their 5070 what Rolex did to their Dayton above. They'd damage the brand's image and hurt not only themselves, but thousands of Patek owners. Coach could never take a piece of each of their handbags from each line and make the purse Louis Vuitton did above. They'd be considered insane. But Louis did and sold every single one of them at $45,000 each.

This is why creative brains like Marc Jacobs (Louis Vuitton, apparel), Thom Browne (Brooks Brothers, apparel), Donatella Versace (Lamborghini, cars) John Bartlett (Ghurka, luggage), Philippe Stark (Leviev Boymelgreen, architects) and Carlos Dias (Roger Dubuis, watches) are called upon to bring DESIGN to these otherwise staid things.

Design is KING and I am its QUEEN.

[Saltine]

Those examples above are the exact reason why I don't own either Rolex or LV. To me, it's arrogant and cocky to actually release something like that. I look for subtle design, not in-your-face over-the-top design. To me, that bag is saying "look at what we can do... sew a bunch of leftovers from other bags together, and still get $45k for them. (hahaha suckers)" and the watch "check this out, we'll take our classy watches and make it look like a strippers dressroom and the will still sell! (ahahaha suckers)"




The the two above are exactly what Rolex did, but they did it with elegance and class. The Rolex you pictured is the same case, but with a bunch of busy design over it. The Panerai is the same case, but with a few subtle changes in the dial layout/design.

Rolex takes a car and adds some fuzzy dice and a new paint job.
Panerai takes a car puts in some expensive hand stitched leather, carbon fiber (or wood) trim and a super lumed speedometer.

[Posh]

Those examples above are the exact reason why I don't own either Rolex or LV. To me, it's arrogant and cocky to actually release something like that. I look for subtle design, not in-your-face over-the-top design. To me, that bag is saying "look at what we can do... sew a bunch of leftovers from other bags together, and still get $45k for them. (hahaha suckers)" and the watch "check this out, we'll take our classy watches and make it look like a strippers dressroom and the will still sell! (ahahaha suckers)"




The the two above are exactly what Rolex did, but they did it with elegance and class. The Rolex you pictured is the same case, but with a bunch of busy design over it. The Panerai is the same case, but with a few subtle changes in the dial layout/design.

Rolex takes a car and adds some fuzzy dice and a new paint job.
Panerai takes a car puts in some expensive hand stitched leather, carbon fiber (or wood) trim and a super lumed speedometer.

Uh, no. Those watches look very similar to each other. Why? Because they have NO DESIGN. Setting a watch with stones at least requires DESIGN. Patching together a purse from $30,000 worth of purses requires DESIGN to make them all fit.

Trying to convince me that Panerai is horologically important is going to be difficult. They're not. They're just big. That's it. They have not done anything to justify their prices and probably never will seeing as how they are a part of a major luxury conglomerate with finite resources for each company within it's fold. I also read interviews with their CEO and I find him to be the Barack Obama of watch company CEOs. Draw your own conclusions.

Both Rolex and Louis Vuitton have earned the right to play with the image of their brands; both are innovators. They didn't make those items to pizz on their clients: it's called flights of fancy. As I said, they did not stop production of core pieces ro focus on either one of those models. Both are limited edition creative pieces. But I'm repeating myself.

You prove to me something of merit, design or technologically, has come from Panerai and MAYBE I'll change my mind.

[Guest1]

The only Pams that I consider are horologically important are the double barrel tourbys that they have delivered in the last year.

[jeff g]

Wow. I am speechless.
What a thread...what a post.

I must add however, that my favorite watch in fact is a Patek rep.
The MBK Nautilus is worthy of comparison to the gen 3700/3800
jumbo, albeit, not even close to 1.1 to the gen. Personally I would never spend 25,000 for the current 5711, but I am such a fan of this Patek model, that wearing the rep is worth it for me.

Additionally, one of my first rep purchases years ago was the original offering of any rep Pam...that being the base 112. It is quite simply...simple. Elegant dial and beautiful AR. A classic watch.

Your eloquence is much appreciated.

[Saltine]

Those watches look very similar to each other.

they look nothing alike. unless you focus on the 12 and the 6. The similarities are:
case
hands
12&6
seconds at 9
GMT

similarities on the rolex:
everything but the stones,gel on the bezel and leopard print

what is horologically important about leopard print?

few words for you: radiomir, luminor, tourbillon, screwless cases, screwless bracelets, screw down winding crown, crown guards, crown locking lever, eight-day movement, outsize... ohh yea FIRST UNDERWATER WATCHES

Edit to say: question for Panerai is not what have you done lately... it's what have you done.. and that answer is a long one.

[dapri]

Finally some writing about real watches Extraordinary article!!!

Take care

[Posh]

The only Pams that I consider are horologically important are the double barrel tourbys that they have delivered in the last year.

That would interesting but they didn't invent the double-barrel tourbillon. But that feature is something interesting nonetheless. And while we're on the subject of tourbillons, the Panerai 276 has the UNMITIGATED GALL to be $98,000 and you can't even SEE the tourbillon without TAKING THE WATCH OFF?! Who IS this company's creative director?

Seeing the same ones on here everyday doesn't help matters.

Wow. I am speechless.
What a thread...what a post.

I must add however, that my favorite watch in fact is a Patek rep.
The MBK Nautilus is worthy of comparison to the gen 3700/3800
jumbo, albeit, not even close to 1.1 to the gen. Personally I would never spend 25,000 for the current 5711, but I am such a fan of this Patek model, that wearing the rep is worth it for me.

Your eloquence is much appreciated.

Thank you, John, for your kind words and enjoying the posting. I'm sorry some of the pictures are missing; I am fixing that now.

they look nothing alike. unless you focus on the 12 and the 6. The similarities are:
case
hands
12&6
seconds at 9
GMT

similarities on the rolex:
everything but the stones,gel on the bezel and leopard print

what is horologically important about leopard print?

few words for you: radiomir, luminor, tourbillon, screwless cases, screwless bracelets, screw down winding crown, crown guards, crown locking lever, eight-day movement, outsize... ohh yea FIRST UNDERWATER WATCHES

I didn't say they looked alike. I said they looked "similar." You didn't name anything that they did FIRST. They haven't done anything FIRST. They don't even have a research and development department in the same sense as even their stablemates Piaget, Jaeger-Le Coultre or even A. Lange. They weren't even the first to have big watches!

Panerai didn't make the first "underwater" watch or even the first water-resistant watch. Hans Wilsdorf of Rolex in 1927 gave us the Oyster, the first water resistant watch. The first diver's watch, the first underwater watch period, was the Omega Marine which was tested during the late 1920s and introduced in 1932.

There's nothing horologically important about leopard print; it's simply a DESIGN element. I didn't include Rolex in my list but I could have. I didn't add them because people want to know about other companies with histories besides them, even though I respect Rolex highly. Rolex has proven their relevance to world of time keeping, even introducing the wonderful Yachtmaster II with a great countdown function. I'm very simple to please; you only have to do ONE thing that's significant to the advancement of horology. Just one. Or, if not that, DESIGN something of interest. I think that's MORE than reasonable, don't you?

[Saltine]

Water resistance is not a underwater watch. Like you said, the first "divers" watch was made by Omega, but they only thing diver about it was the fact that it had a case that protected it from extreme pressure and temperature. It actually had to be removed from the case to be wound.

The first true underwater watch was made by Panerai in 1936. They not only made their cases water proof (note proof, not resistant), but the over sized their dials, over sized their numbers and used their luminating compound to make the watch visible in murky and dark waters.

And I had given you more then one thing Panerai has done.

[Posh]

A very impressive post Posh! It's obvious from the detailed info that you took a great deal of time to write this and you actually know what you're talking about. Hell, it's tedious work for me to post photo links let alone write up a long post like that. Thanks for the incredible write up and thanks for taking the time to do this. Someone should sticky this.

Thanks, Bro! You rock, bro! The hardest part about my other posts was the damn pictures, not the written content. This post was killer in that way plus the extra words. I mean, this IS a watch forum first so I would need to keep that in mind. This post is just shy of 10,000 words, more than some of my others posts COMBINED. A least the two McQueens and the suitcase post anyway.

Finally some writing about real watches Extraordinary article!!!

Take care

Thank you, Dapri! This means a lot. Please keep reading and I'll keep writing! In this place and my other publishing endeavor as well! Thanks for the PM; I replied back!

Water resistance is not a underwater watch. Like you said, the first "divers" watch was made by Omega, but they only thing diver about it was the fact that it had a case that protected it from extreme pressure and temperature. It actually had to be removed from the case to be wound.

The first true underwater watch was made by Panerai in 1936. They not only made their cases water proof (note proof, not resistant), but the over sized their dials, over sized their numbers and used their luminating compound to make the watch visible in murky and dark waters.

And I had given you more then one thing Panerai has done.

First off, Panerai didn't make the first waterproof watch. Rolex is considered the first. Period. You could take their watches underwater to the SAME depths as Panerai models you keep bringing up. They were the first with a waterproof watch. I am using the term "water-resistance" because that's the term favored by watch historians. Omega made the first diver's watch. Panerai was merely doing as the Italian Navy wanted in the only way they knew how because of patents held by other watch companies. The Italians were always late to the table on a lot of things historically!

And all those things you mentioned about them? Those aren't technological firsts. THEY ARE ANTI-COUNTERFEIT MEASURES. Why? Because they are SO easy to counterfeit due to the very things that make them popular to modders around here. People split hairs around here because they are trying to pass these bad boys off as real. The real fact of the matter? Some modded Panerais around here, if placed in with genuines, couldn't be distinguished from them. They use movements, cases and bracelets readily available to anyone, especially before 2007. I actually think this is why modders like them. With a Panerai you can fool yourself and others into thinking you have the real watch because for all, intents and purposes, YOU DO! Because there's NOTHING that makes them really special which is why collectors stay away from the brand now like the plague. They just got their fourth in-house movement.

They are not an important company. The are a resurrected old watch company that was purchased and reissued simply because Richemont wanted a pure casual/sport upscale watch brand with higher price points and thusly better margins, because they really didn't have one. They bought it simply as a niche company. They don't expect it to really rival too many others brands in traditional sense. Their CEO, Angelo Bonati, couldn't really even describe their competition ten years ago and couldn't possibly describe it today. He actually went on the record and says his brand is between Rolex and AUDEMARS-PIGUET?! Is he SERIOUS? Where'd he come up with those mileposts? I would say he's on the level with Rolex, and maybe not even them because most of their movements are from Swatch. They seem to be in their own world, which is fine.

I will give you this though: watches are so enormous today because of this brand. Bad eyesight? Good watch.

[bestcraigslisterever]

That would interesting but they didn't invent the double-barrel tourbillon. But that feature is something interesting nonetheless. And while we're on the subject of tourbillons, the Panerai 276 has the UNMITIGATED GALL to be $98,000 and you can't even SEE the tourbillon without TAKING THE WATCH OFF?! Who IS this company's creative director?

Seeing the same ones on here everday doesn't

Clearly you don't understand the point of a Panerai.

Panerai's are meant to be understated following their historical design without giving merit to the MTV bling bling culture that the other watch makers are so happy to oblige.

[Posh]

Clearly you don't understand the point of a Panerai.

Panerai's are meant to be understated following their historical design without giving merit to the MTV bling bling culture that the other watch makers are so happy to oblige.

I don't understand "the point" of Panerai? This understatement you're talking about comes from the roots of the watch as military bauble for a fourth string military power in the mid-twentieth century, as any military historian will tell you. You may want to read my entire post and my replies to Saltine to make sure I really don't understand the point of Panerai.

Since I don't understand the point of Panerai, because I seem to be so clearly ensconced in the "MTV bling bling culture," why don't you explain it to me. I'm all ears.

[Posh]

There's

[spekoli]

There's

i enjoyed the read, thanks for taking the time to put it together.


i also really enjoyed your post that i quoted here because it uses normal size white letters

[Posh]

i enjoyed the read, thanks for taking the time to put it together.


i also really enjoyed your post that i quoted here because it uses normal size white letters

Snap! Awesome! I'm glad you liked it. Where was I?

Oh, yes. Back to business as usual!

[0002S]

Good read and I agree with most of your choices and have a few.

[Chris V.]

i vote this best thread of the year! great post Posh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!