They Won't Leave in the Night: Diamonds Are ForNEVER!

**mrs-h-** · 08-08-2008, 04:45 PM

ElisiX - BTD, the ones who produce Asha have just done a re-run of the Pear and Oval Ashas and they are gorgeous, just look at the pics over at BTD, the pears are barion cut eliminating the bow-tie effect that most pear diamonds have and they are TDF, BTD doesnt have that many settings, if you were to go ahead and get her a new ring, i'd suggest looking at Moissaniteco.com as they have thousands of settings both set with diamonds and moissanite, the halo ring i posted (the one with the stones around the edge of the Asha) is moissanite and they did it for me, they are also authorised Asha dealers and i think cheaper than BTD.

**roflwaffle** · 08-08-2008, 04:48 PM

@amcogo

i agree with most (if not all) of what youve said

still, my post on the bottom of page 4 still holds true

I still find the whole 'ritual' just about the most pointless waste of life Ive quite possibly ever heard of

**amcogo2010** · 08-08-2008, 04:52 PM

Oh yea, there's nothing I disagree with on that part Waffle.

The whole ritual of "X" months salary is total bogus, just wanted to make sure that people keep in mind that issue is totally separate from how likely it is that a diamond you purchase will actually be a blood diamond.

That was really my point.

**roflwaffle** · 08-08-2008, 04:54 PM

agreed

but i dont think posh put too much emphasis on that

she mentioned the poor working conditions i believe.. maybe some ecological whatnot, and marketing, but i believe she left conflict diamonds out of it

she did touch on the matter, but hey whatever.. i guess even at 2% or whatever, there sstill a risk

just like.. buying reps supports terrorism..

**amcogo2010** · 08-08-2008, 04:59 PM

Yeah, I think Posh's post wasn't too focused, I just noticed somehow this thread was getting derailed with conflict stone comments.

I'm back to watches, cuz I'm not like good old davey, no bling for this guy. lol.

**socaligurl80** · 08-08-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

@socaligurl

i think thats great actually

ive gotten into... discussions.. with girls i know, and most of them still believe theyve been 'shorted' if i dont go and drop X months salary on an engagement ring for a ring that will in all likelyhood only be worn during the engagement period

i think as a couple starting out, that X months of salary blown on such a thing is rather distasteful and could better be spent on other things (downpayment towards a house, better honeymoon, a 'family friendly ar', etc etc etc) that would add more to the marriage than a rock.

but, i'd say 98% of women see this as guys being a total cheapass and 'not really loving them enough' yadda yadda

or maybe i am just a cheapass..

besides 'social customs' (created by debeers) I cant really think of a single valid reason for the absurdity of it all..

well, helps I'm NOT american and I never really knew about the concept of X salaries for a ring (how absurd is that?) LOL

BUT I like bling like any other girl and I don't want me or my future hubby to spend SO much money when we can buy a car with it

or have a fantastic honeymoon, business tickets and all to our dream destination with that money for all that matters

Originally Posted by elisiX

I have only skimmed over this thread but I intend on going back and reading it in full as I think this is very interesting but even more-so, I think its relevant to a situation I find myself in currently.

My mrs, Jacqui and I have been together for quite a few years and were 26 now. Jacqui has worked in the diamond industry for a long time and is a qualified gemologist. She now works in travel however during her time working for what I believe is the largest importer of diamonds in Australia, she was showered with gifts and so on from her employers over a number of years which included bracelets, earrings etc in excess of $25-30k. They pretty much thought of her as a daughter.

Anyway when we were 22 I think it was we got engaged. I went to her boss and asked her what she could do for me. In the end I walked out after laying down $14k for over $30k retail worth of diamond. Well I actually had a 2ct F/VS2 solitaire set in a tiffany knife edge ring and I think 17 smaller 12pt G/SI stones for a tiffany shared setting band to suit which I had made up. I was ecstatic to say the least. Long story short we split up a short time later and I was given my rings back which I sold privately (and made a pretty penny on after asking her boss if it were fine for me to sell privately rather then back to her). Essentially I took the 15k I made (on top of my investment) and put it into managed funds. Eventually I bought a place with the money and Jacqui and I got back together about a year after ending the engagement. I think its been about 3 years since we got back together now.

The situation - well we've talked about getting engaged again but i'll be dammed if I spend that kinda coin on a diamond again. I'd much rather spend money on our mortgage/lifestyle/savings however I guess im unsure how buying something 'other than' a diamond will go down. I know my girl - and I know she will ultimately be happy with anything I give her however she walks about with 80pt diamonds in her ears ffs. Ideally i'd like to buy her another 2ct stone (perhaps cushion or oval this time) but I might just get her to read this thread with me and perhaps it may open her eyes a little into the perceived value put on diamonds though this might be a hard sell. She's pretty big on holidays (now being in that industry) and we get incredible rates on flights etc. Maybe she would rather spend the 'diamond' money on a fantastic trip and accept the value and quality of these alternate stones.

Anyway - thanks for the info and listening to my waffling on.

CONGRATS

And well, you should definitely let her know there is an option and it doesn't have to be a diamond to look like one

PLUS, does she know about you buying other reps? you could compare a FANTASTIC rollie rep with the gen and then tell her it's pretty much the same thing with the bling

AND give her the option of spending that money on a FAB honeymoon

or upgrade her car
or whatever that makes more sense than a simple glittery STONE

**Posh** · 08-08-2008, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by amcogo2010

Yeah, I think Posh's post wasn't too focused, I just noticed somehow this thread was getting derailed with conflict stone comments.

I'm back to watches, cuz I'm not like good old davey, no bling for this guy. lol.

Love the lively discussion here!

Cogo, I appreciate what you're trying to point out and I respect your defense of the diamond industry but I DON'T TRUST the people involved behind-the-scenes in the industry. When I look back further than even just recently, like over 100 hundred years ago and study what they did to other human beings for ROCKS, they will NEVER have my respect, my trust or my money in the forseeable future.

Your statement is a bit inaccurate. I urge everyone to read in TOTALITY what I write and don't skim as things like this get put out there and they aren't completely "focused" on my actual thoughts and feelings.

I stated right away that I don't think a ROCK defines how much I am loved. Which kinda IMPLIES that my man doesn't have to spend 18 months of his salary on an engagement ring for me.

Hell, he may not even have to buy me an engagement ring. He could be creative and get me Kicthen Aid stand mixer as I think that's not too bad a token of love. As long as he gets me the ice cream and pasta attachment sets with it. How can you not marry a man who spends upwards of $1,000 on a mixer for you?

**Posh** · 08-08-2008, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by elisiX

I have only skimmed over this thread but I intend on going back and reading it in full as I think this is very interesting but even more-so, I think its relevant to a situation I find myself in currently.

My mrs, Jacqui and I have been together for quite a few years and were 26 now. Jacqui has worked in the diamond industry for a long time and is a qualified gemologist. She now works in travel however during her time working for what I believe is the largest importer of diamonds in Australia, she was showered with gifts and so on from her employers over a number of years which included bracelets, earrings etc in excess of $25-30k. They pretty much thought of her as a daughter.

Anyway when we were 22 I think it was we got engaged. I went to her boss and asked her what she could do for me. In the end I walked out after laying down $14k for over $30k retail worth of diamond. Well I actually had a 2ct F/VS2 solitaire set in a tiffany knife edge ring and I think 17 smaller 12pt G/SI stones for a tiffany shared setting band to suit which I had made up. I was ecstatic to say the least. Long story short we split up a short time later and I was given my rings back which I sold privately (and made a pretty penny on after asking her boss if it were fine for me to sell privately rather then back to her). Essentially I took the 15k I made (on top of my investment) and put it into managed funds. Eventually I bought a place with the money and Jacqui and I got back together about a year after ending the engagement. I think its been about 3 years since we got back together now.

The situation - well we've talked about getting engaged again but i'll be dammed if I spend that kinda coin on a diamond again. I'd much rather spend money on our mortgage/lifestyle/savings however I guess im unsure how buying something 'other than' a diamond will go down. I know my girl - and I know she will ultimately be happy with anything I give her however she walks about with 80pt diamonds in her ears ffs. Ideally i'd like to buy her another 2ct stone (perhaps cushion or oval this time) but I might just get her to read this thread with me and perhaps it may open her eyes a little into the perceived value put on diamonds though this might be a hard sell. She's pretty big on holidays (now being in that industry) and we get incredible rates on flights etc. Maybe she would rather spend the 'diamond' money on a fantastic trip and accept the value and quality of these alternate stones.

Anyway - thanks for the info and listening to my waffling on.

Yeah, you are one of the few people that got the return on their initial investment on a diamond. So many people do not.

Hopefully this thread provides insight into these ethically sound and smart financial choices. If she cannot possibly have anything but a "real" diamond, give her a cultured one. And don't let her sell you on the fact that the earthen diamond took millions of years to make and thus has more sentimental (i.e. LOVE) value than a stone that took three days to make. I've actually had an argument with a girlfriend about that!

**SFA437** · 08-08-2008, 10:27 PM

This should be stickied!!

For those who don't think diamonds cause misery-

These are photos taken by me personally in a "mining town" that produces an a$$load of quality stones for the market- legally.

Keep in mind that brownish-black stuff is NOT mud.

Don't mean to offend with these photos, just see no real need to put a nice face on a brutal industry that overprices shiny pieces of coal. I have no love for DeBeers or their ilk.

Ashi all the way!

**amcogo2010** · 08-08-2008, 10:28 PM

That was my point Posh, your post wasn't really focussed on blood diamonds, but the thread had random posts on it that I felt should be addressed. Not necessarily just your original post.

I meant to write it wasn't "focussed on blood diamonds."

I agree with the part about spending the money, that wasn't really my disagreement or clarification, if you will, since it wasn't really a disagreement, more just addressing various other posts made.

**socaligurl80** · 08-09-2008, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Posh

Yeah, you are one of the few people that got the return on their initial investment on a diamond. So many people do not.

Hopefully this thread provides insight into these ethically sound and smart financial choices. If she cannot possibly have anything but a "real" diamond, give her a cultured one. And don't let her sell you on the fact that the earthen diamond took millions of years to make and thus has more sentimental (i.e. LOVE) value than a stone that took three days to make. I've actually had an argument with a girlfriend about that!

well, i believe he got his money back because he paid HALF of what it would have cost for the regular JOE :P LOL

anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only person thinking like this.

**Posh** · 08-09-2008, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by socaligurl80

well, i believe he got his money back because he paid HALF of what it would have cost for the regular JOE :P LOL

anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only person thinking like this.

That stone must have been something. He laughed a short way to the bank and then left, came back, and laughed again but longer. LOL

**socaligurl80** · 08-09-2008, 03:20 PM

can u imagine paying 30k for a rock and then have to resell it and only get half? oh wow.. that's how "priceless" diamonds are :P

sorry I derailed here

just wanted to let u know I decided which ring I want and since btd takes 5 weeks I planned my purchase for october to get it in november.

tiffany reproduction with v6 asher 1.5ct

can't wait!!!

**mrs-h-** · 08-10-2008, 08:01 AM

Socali - Thats fabulous, you'll need to post pics of your new sparklie

**Saltine** · 08-10-2008, 07:30 PM

I thought this industry had been run into the ground by the diamond giants. Great write up and fantastic links. I'm single now, but when that time comes there is no way I'm goign with a gen. -Dan

**cue003** · 08-10-2008, 07:47 PM

Very interesting read and it is almost a taboo discussion among most people because of the "oh its not real" factor and that must imply that your "love" for me is not real stuff.

It is a shame. It is all for show anyway. A ring shouldn't define your love. it is a symbol but not the definition. Many women use the ring as a definition instead.

I plan to review the sites posted.

thanks for the info.

**Posh** · 08-10-2008, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by socaligurl80

can u imagine paying 30k for a rock and then have to resell it and only get half? oh wow.. that's how "priceless" diamonds are :P

sorry I derailed here

just wanted to let u know I decided which ring I want and since btd takes 5 weeks I planned my purchase for october to get it in november.

tiffany reproduction with v6 asher 1.5ct

can't wait!!!

Yes, we must see bling as Mrs. H said. We're waiting with baited and envious breath!

Originally Posted by cue003

Very interesting read and it is almost a taboo discussion among most people because of the "oh its not real" factor and that must imply that your "love" for me is not real stuff.

It is a shame. It is all for show anyway. A ring shouldn't define your love. it is a symbol but not the definition. Many women use the ring as a definition instead.

I plan to review the sites posted.

thanks for the info.

Yeah, Cue, it is a bit of a taboo. Some wom en don't care who knows the ring's rock is faux. But many do and are all running around like their husband went bankrupt buying it. The fact that it is used as the definition most times instead one, of many, symbols of someone's love is pathetic. But we have society and DeBeers' slick 100 year marketing campaign to thank for that.

**socaligurl80** · 08-10-2008, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by mrs-h-

Socali - Thats fabulous, you'll need to post pics of your new sparklie

Thanks Mrs H and Posh!! well, november is a long way but I will post pics as SOON as I get that baby!!

**bvlgary** · 08-10-2008, 11:08 PM

If I remember right, you can get a few dead bodies, put them into a massive macchine and then turn up with a few precious gems.

Now we need some bodies and could make a fortune.

Anyone want to be a part of my Family

**Saltine** · 08-11-2008, 12:46 AM

Did this win an award? because it should.

**Posh** · 08-11-2008, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by bvlgary

If I remember right, you can get a few dead bodies, put them into a massive macchine and then turn up with a few precious gems.

Now we need some bodies and could make a fortune.

Anyone want to be a part of my Family

Now, there's a thought! We just need some transients or runaways and we'll be in business!

Originally Posted by Saltine

Did this win an award? because it should.

Really? Are you a judge? Because I'm more than willing to do what it takes to win . . .

**SFA437** · 08-13-2008, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by Posh

Really? Are you a judge? Because I'm more than willing to do what it takes to win . . .

I'm thinkin Wet T-Shirt Contest

**baghandler** · 08-20-2008, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by socaligurl80

can u imagine paying 30k for a rock and then have to resell it and only get half? oh wow.. that's how "priceless" diamonds are :P

sorry I derailed here

just wanted to let u know I decided which ring I want and since btd takes 5 weeks I planned my purchase for october to get it in november.

tiffany reproduction with v6 asher 1.5ct

can't wait!!!

Oh I cannot wait for you to get it! You are going to LOVE it I am sure!!

I haven't taken my Asha studs out of my ears since I got 'em. 2ct total wt, E color, version 6 asha, martini setting

I'm in LOVE LOVE LOVE

(oh, and they go nicely with my shiny yachtmaster that I also have not taken off since it arrived!)

I've got my eye on a nice big 3 stone ring next...

credit: betterthandiamond.com

**Jackjo** · 08-20-2008, 03:44 PM

Not sure if anyone has asked this question Posh, but what is your opinion on Moissinite?

My wife has a ring with a pretty good sized one that looks fantastic.

**Posh** · 08-20-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by baghandler

Oh I cannot wait for you to get it! You are going to LOVE it I am sure!!

I haven't taken my Asha studs out of my ears since I got 'em. 2ct total wt, E color, version 6 asha, martini setting

I'm in LOVE LOVE LOVE

(oh, and they go nicely with my shiny yachtmaster that I also have not taken off since it arrived!)

I've got my eye on a nice big 3 stone ring next...

credit: betterthandiamond.com

I was wondering how those turned out! Is version 6 too blingy? I was curious about that but wasn't sure. But I trust Betterthandiamonds judgement because all their other stuff looks great. How do you like the v6?

Originally Posted by Jackjo

Not sure if anyone has asked this question Posh, but what is your opinion on Moissinite?

My wife has a ring with a pretty good sized one that looks fantastic.

I have mixed feelings on Moissanite due to the color and scintillation issues. It looks good, true, but it looks TOO good and that isn't even factoring in color issues that are present in a good bit, but not all, moissanite stones. But there's a reason for that and I discuss it briefly on page 4 of this thread. Here's what I said:

Selecting a stone [Asha] in the H and I range and maybe J range will give the stone a yellowish cast which would, depending on your job, totally pass muster. If it's a large stone, get the yellower colors so it looks as if you got a bigger stone but it's lower quality and thus less expensive. Of course, having an exceptional cut like Hearts & Arrows so it still sparkles will offset the color discrepancy. Don't get a large moissanite as that green [sometimes greyish-green] tint is crazy ugly.

The simulants we are talking about do not look cheap by any means. It would stand up at any cocktail party, Republican fundraiser or funeral you could possibly go to. Repping allows you to save money on things you love so you can buy things that are more important, like . . . more reps! I'm teasing . . . or am I?

And then I say this:

You may want to read a bit about the version 5 and version 6 Asha. I personally prefer the version 5 because it does not have the "optical layer" made of their proprietary compound that brings the refractory index up to about 2.5. Diamond is between 2.40 and 2.42. This layer increases the light handling of the stone. But it is no where near the insane RI of moissanite which is 2.60 to 2.69. But with that stone you want, version 6 is fine.

Moissanite is best in smaller sizes as accent stones, in my estimation, than as the center stone. The larger they get, the more obvious the color and refraction problems become.

Mrs. H, I believe, has photos her Asha/Moisssanite hybrid that I would consider ideal: Asha center stone and Moissanite accents. It's very believeable and looks great.