They Won't Leave in the Night: Diamonds Are ForNEVER!

[Posh]

Just in case there was any doubt, here's what Aleksandr A. Malinin, advisor to Alrosa which is the state-owned diamond company of Russia, had to say to the New York Times about these wonderful stones everyone seems to love so much:

“We have to tell people that diamonds are valuable. We are trying to maintain the price, just as De Beers did, as all diamond producing countries do. But what we are doing is selling an illusion,” meaning a product with no utility and a price that depends on the continued sense of scarcity where there is none.

Yes. An illusion. These are rocks, y'all. Pretty rocks, yes. But at the end of the day, they're plain, old ridiculous rocks. Only an idiot would invest in them, think they're forever or equate them with love. And no one wants to be with an idiot.

[nderwater]

I cant even describe how much I disagree with you. As my wife has become more educated about jewelry and the retail industry which supports it, we have visited countless shops and looked at hundreds (jeez, thousands?) of settings. Now that I know what to look for, I am aghast at the cheap crap sold by most jewelry chains - small diamond side stones which are cloudy, dull, or even single cut. Cultured gemstones passed off as natural. Thin, porous or even hollow gold work with careless tool marks, poor alignment symmetry and inconsistent milgrane. Retail stores all across carry jewelry which no informed, self respecting man should be buying for someone he cares about. But guess what, that's what sells - because gemstones are expensive, and ordinary people buy what's in their budget.

Custom jewelry though, from a respected jeweler is a totally different animal. I'm talking about artisans who care about their craft - not the assembly pieces you'll find at Helzberg or on QVC. My wife worked with her jeweler to design a piece she really liked, and he took his drawings to a skilled carver who cut the wax from which the ring was cast. Her ring was finished with care and is gorgeous even under magnification. Despite the fact that her center stone was an Asha CZ, the smaller stones in the ring were full cut, conflict-free diamonds and delicately mounted. We debated platinum, but settled on 18K white gold as prices were swinging upward at the time. We inspected the ring before and after it was rhodium plated and are very happy with the finished product.

If this is 'turning jewelry into junk,' 'not the real deal,' and 'just being cheap' than I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the industry and how to get the most value from your dollar (without supporting the diamond cartel). And I won't even dignify your last statement with a response.

[Posh]

I cant even describe how much I disagree with you. As my wife has become more educated about jewelry and the retail industry which supports it, we have visited countless shops and looked at hundreds (jeez, thousands?) of settings. Now that I know what to look for, I am aghast at the cheap crap sold by most jewelry chains - small diamond side stones which are cloudy, dull, or even single cut. Cultured gemstones passed off as natural. Thin, porous or even hollow gold work with careless tool marks, poor alignment symmetry and inconsistent milgrane. Retail stores all across carry jewelry which no informed, self respecting man should be buying for someone he cares about. But guess what, that's what sells - because gemstones are expensive, and ordinary people buy what's in their budget.

Custom jewelry though, from a respected jeweler is a totally different animal. I'm talking about artisans who care about their craft - not the assembly pieces you'll find at Helzberg or on QVC. My wife worked with her jeweler to design a piece she really liked, and he took his drawings to a skilled carver who cut the wax from which the ring was cast. Her ring was finished with care and is gorgeous even under magnification. Despite the fact that her center stone was an Asha CZ, the smaller stones in the ring were full cut, conflict-free diamonds and delicately mounted. We debated platinum, but settled on 18K white gold as prices were swinging upward at the time. We inspected the ring before and after it was rhodium plated and are very happy with the finished product.

If this is 'turning jewelry into junk,' 'not the real deal,' and 'just being cheap' than I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the industry and how to get the most value from your dollar (without supporting the diamond cartel). And I won't even dignify your last statement with a response.

Well said. On her next piece, you may want to consider palladium; most all the attributes of platinum, except the cost which is more in line with white gold. And no pesky, yearly rhodium plating. You may even wish to have the ring remounted in palladium sometime in the future too.

This will also incidentally save some money because their won't be the trip to the jewelry store which will cause the itch to come. The itch that makes you want to buy something.

[Archronos]

It's the same way for a lot of things (where the inventory held on hand at a store is crap with a name on it and a high price tag) where you can get custom made, better quality product for less than the ready-made equivalent. Take a look at suits at some "high end" department store sometime. You'd be surprised at how much people will pay for a fused suit just because it has somebody else's name on it.

I cant even describe how much I disagree with you. As my wife has become more educated about jewelry and the retail industry which supports it, we have visited countless shops and looked at hundreds (jeez, thousands?) of settings. Now that I know what to look for, I am aghast at the cheap crap sold by most jewelry chains - small diamond side stones which are cloudy, dull, or even single cut. Cultured gemstones passed off as natural. Thin, porous or even hollow gold work with careless tool marks, poor alignment symmetry and inconsistent milgrane. Retail stores all across carry jewelry which no informed, self respecting man should be buying for someone he cares about. But guess what, that's what sells - because gemstones are expensive, and ordinary people buy what's in their budget.

Custom jewelry though, from a respected jeweler is a totally different animal. I'm talking about artisans who care about their craft - not the assembly pieces you'll find at Helzberg or on QVC. My wife worked with her jeweler to design a piece she really liked, and he took his drawings to a skilled carver who cut the wax from which the ring was cast. Her ring was finished with care and is gorgeous even under magnification. Despite the fact that her center stone was an Asha CZ, the smaller stones in the ring were full cut, conflict-free diamonds and delicately mounted. We debated platinum, but settled on 18K white gold as prices were swinging upward at the time. We inspected the ring before and after it was rhodium plated and are very happy with the finished product.

If this is 'turning jewelry into junk,' 'not the real deal,' and 'just being cheap' than I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the industry and how to get the most value from your dollar (without supporting the diamond cartel). And I won't even dignify your last statement with a response.

[Mitsouko]

Just my two cents on diamonds, moissanite, btd asha and regular cz's. I own all of them. CZ's look nice in sunlight and direct light, The Asha is very pretty but looks flat in certain lighting conditions and the moissanite sparkles like crazy, more than diamonds and certainly more that badly cut diamonds but it lacks depth, I find. I wear a moissanite band daily with my plain platinum wedding ring because I don't have to worry about cracking a stone on my eternity ring. I also wear Asha earrings quite often but not as often as my moissanite earrings. My yellow and white diamond rings and earrings have fire, sparkle and flash in all lighting conditions and I never get tired of looking at them. Flawed rocks they may be, but so far nothing I have seen can match up on all counts (not talking about price here, just beauty), not even moissanite which I really love. And if the price of diamonds ever comes down considerably, I will be the first in line to buy in bulk!

[Posh]

Just my two cents on diamonds, moissanite, btd asha and regular cz's. I own all of them. CZ's look nice in sunlight and direct light, The Asha is very pretty but looks flat in certain lighting conditions and the moissanite sparkles like crazy, more than diamonds and certainly more that badly cut diamonds but it lacks depth, I find. I wear a moissanite band daily with my plain platinum wedding ring because I don't have to worry about cracking a stone on my eternity ring. I also wear Asha earrings quite often but not as often as my moissanite earrings. My yellow and white diamond rings and earrings have fire, sparkle and flash in all lighting conditions and I never get tired of looking at them. Flawed rocks they may be, but so far nothing I have seen can match up on all counts (not talking about price here, just beauty), not even moissanite which I really love. And if the price of diamonds ever comes down considerably, I will be the first in line to buy in bulk!

Do you feel that the higher scintillation and fire of moissanite, in larger carat weights, can be a little off-putting because its so much higher than diamond? I like the stone, really, when used in conjunction with other simulants or cultured stones. But by itself in large carat weights, do those extra visual attributes make the stone seem less "natural, " if you will?

[Mitsouko]

Hi Posh, yes it does put me off in higher carat weights as you cannot even see the stone for all the scintillation and that just looks funny. Plus the cost rises dramatically for larger carat sizes and that makes it less appealing also. I do love it for under a carat sizes, especially for eternity or half eternity style rings or as sidestones. They even have them in fancy colours now, which is awesome.

[roflwaffle]

a year later (!) and this thread is still going.

[narikaa]

I've been contemplating a mans ring, white gold/platinum/palladium with a large emerald for some time now. I have a massive jones for anything green (won't even buy a car if it's not green) and the white metal/green stone combo I simply love.

Having perused BTD's site I am most definitely going with a cultured one. Emeralds are mined in much the same way as diamonds with a lot more ecological damage and similar social impact on the local people. When you add in the clarity of the BTD stone vice a mined one and the perfect greenish blue color as well as the price it's a no brainer!

Now to find a nice setting that catches my eye.

Be very wary on how you have the emerald mounted, you want no exposed 'corners' of the stone - they are so damned easy to break/chip. Too soft a stone IMO for daily wear (esp for a man).


.

[SFA437]

It's not going to be a daily wear item, kind of like my SOH chrono with the mesh- brought out on special occasions

[Posh]

Hi Posh, yes it does put me off in higher carat weights as you cannot even see the stone for all the scintillation and that just looks funny. Plus the cost rises dramatically for larger carat sizes and that makes it less appealing also. I do love it for under a carat sizes, especially for eternity or half eternity style rings or as sidestones. They even have them in fancy colours now, which is awesome.

Okay. That's what I thought. This probably means that moissanite should probably be more of an accent stone than the main event because it sounds like it would steal the show and this is a definitely a team.

It's not going to be a daily wear item, kind of like my SOH chrono with the mesh- brought out on special occasions

"Gentleman of leisure" or men with rigorous desk jobs can probably wear an emerald daily. You also want to look at a stone with fewer internal flaws. Stones without these natural weak points can stand up to a bit more "abuse" than a low quality stone can.

[socaligurl80]

I just wanted to come back and thank Posh for introducing me to BTD. I own BOTH diamonds and Ashas (yes multiples now) and I gotta say that I get the same if not MORE satisfaction from my ashas than I get from my diamonds.

1) No worrying if they get stolen
2) same or MORE sparkle from an Asha (yes yes, they are PERFECT cut versus my real diamond GIA cert GOOD CUT, plus my diamond is SLIGHTLY larger than my asha.. anyway)


oh and I want to add the fact that wearing a simulant won't make you look like a poor lady. I CHOOSE to buy sims when I can afford the same SIZED (or larger, in my case my diamond is larger than my sim) but I choose I don't want to believe the crap that diamonds are FOREVER and diamonds are valued that much.

Ever since I bought my diamond at a really good price I am still seeing diamonds about MY CONFIG with a GIA certificate JUST LIKE MINE sold for less than mine because people can no longer afford to have those.

Also, there are more and more diamonds being sold second hand lately which is pushing the diamond retail price way down that what it used to be. Are u going to tell me jewellers don't make a profit? I'm sure they still do

[SFA437]

"Gentleman of leisure" or men with rigorous desk jobs can probably wear an emerald daily. You also want to look at a stone with fewer internal flaws. Stones without these natural weak points can stand up to a bit more "abuse" than a low quality stone can.

This one's definitely going to be a box queen

I've been browsing the stones on the site and drooling. I have a friend from Jr. high who works in Williamburg connected to the jewelry industry who promised me "such a deal" when it comes to the setting

Once I get up some spare funds look for pics

[Questions]

An iteresting read indeed thanks for the write up posh!

[Westbrook19312]

Any possibility about fitting them for a diamond Breitling bezel?

[ruffmonkey]

hmmm i wonder if any of the simulants are worth the dough...

[Posh]

hmmm i wonder if any of the simulants are worth the dough...

Like I said in the original post, it depends on who makes them and the process used to make them. I believe the Asha is one of the best simulants available, for realism, value and quality. Some people feel moissanite is better. It all depends on what your needs are really. You certainly feel richer because you're saving a great deal of money.

[jcp5252]

I had a chance to invest in a company a while back that was looking to convert from industrial to consumer production of moissanite. I blew it off thinking it was nothing more than cz. I am kicking myself now. It makes sense that it would be huge. Even lab created true diamonds are becoming more and more available. Like the guy told me - they are just carbon - which is the second most common element in the universe. All that was lacking was the manufacturing technology to catch up.

[Posh]

I had a chance to invest in a company a while back that was looking to convert from industrial to consumer production of moissanite. I blew it off thinking it was nothing more than cz. I am kicking myself now. It makes sense that it would be huge. Even lab created true diamonds are becoming more and more available. Like the guy told me - they are just carbon - which is the second most common element in the universe. All that was lacking was the manufacturing technology to catch up.

Are you serious? You passed on that? You underestimated the power that shiny things have on women? You must be new to our planet. Welcome. I hope you enjoy your stay.

Hindsight is 20/20. They have become extremely popular, especially the semi-mounts since moissanite doesn't suffer from the drawbacks inherent in some of their larger stones.

[Soleggiato]

You underestimated the power that shiny things have on women?

For sure lol. Shiny things and women go hand in hand... I always get left behind staring at all the pretty shiny things at a store counter etc cause of the displays.

Good information Posh. The symbolism and status behind those stones can create too much of a want for the real deal. There are stones out there that are much prettier sometimes with the same symbolism too like garnets which I love because they can be a beautiful crimson. Palladium sounds like a great replacement for my favorite platinum. I wouldn't mind a ring made out of that.

I wonder how many people consider or believe in the stones other "properties" like symbolism, healing attributes etc when they think about or purchase them though...

On the diamond ring note, I just bought a white topaz ring. Its so beautiful and looks like a diamond, just as brilliant but definitely more cost effective. Perfect substitute. Gorgeous arrangement, just what I'd want my real ring to look like whenever that comes my way but with a better quality band haha. I guess its still kinda bad because we want to stop mining and replace all these stones with lab created ones though

[Posh]

For sure lol. Shiny things and women go hand in hand... I always get left behind staring at all the pretty shiny things at a store counter etc cause of the displays.

Good information Posh. The symbolism and status behind those stones can create too much of a want for the real deal. There are stones out there that are much prettier sometimes with the same symbolism too like garnets which I love because they can be a beautiful crimson. Palladium sounds like a great replacement for my favorite platinum. I wouldn't mind a ring made out of that.

I wonder how many people consider or believe in the stones other "properties" like symbolism, healing attributes etc when they think about or purchase them though...

On the diamond ring note, I just bought a white topaz ring. Its so beautiful and looks like a diamond, just as brilliant but definitely more cost effective. Perfect substitute. Gorgeous arrangement, just what I'd want my real ring to look like whenever that comes my way but with a better quality band haha. I guess its still kinda bad because we want to stop mining and replace all these stones with lab created ones though

Thanks, Sole. And me too! I don't need any prompting whatsoever to go drooling through Cartier or Tiffany. As a matter of fact, if I get anywhere near Chevy Chase and it's daylight, I'll head that way. I LUV the Cartier store! Not regular love, real LUV! LOL

I've seen a number of white topaz pieces around on the 'Net and wondered what they looked like in person and properly cut and faceted. Do they really give off a diamond-like presence? And palladium is a no-brainer as it has all the platinum properties and none of the downsides, like the crazy cost. There always seems to be a lower cost alternative in the luxury goods arena. You get quality and you can even get value. I tell people all the time that it is out there.

I have no idea what goes through people's minds when they buy these things. It's all so very arbitrary when we go looking for things that convey what we should just be able to express through actions and words. I hate that there's suffering involved with mining certain gems and for me that would tarnish my enjoyment of the stone or anything else. It's just like the most delicious foods are the most cruel to make, e.g. foie gras and veal! Diamonds are so beautiful but wouldn't you know it! there's amazing cruelty and pain surrounding them.

A moissy, Asha or cultured diamond (or lab created stone like emeralds, etc.) can provide the same pleasure and there's no real insanity surrounding their creation. I believe getting one of these stones has greater symbolism because it shows that your guy (or gal) cares not just about you but is kind enough to be considerate of other people out in the world he has never seen or met. Someone that conscientious is keeper!

[sricenbaw]

I have an Asha diamond I would be willing to send to someone established from this site if they would like to do a review.. I don't have a good enough camera for this. I purchased a used asha from there forum to inspect before I purchase a engagement ring, I was pleasantly surprised by it,.. But, it was a expensive purchase for a "fake"..

[sricenbaw]

The end of that didn't come out right, because I don't believe its an expensive fake, what I ment was it was an expensive investment just to check it out and review it like I did, personally I think they're way worth the money, the same way our super reps fetch the most money out of us..

[Jennerate]

after reading this review i was curious about Asha stones. i have been trying to design a ring for a while and was just discouraged at the cost of the genuine stones that i was looking at in the cuts i wanted. the custome work plus the stones would've made the total cost $20,000, maybe slightly less if i didn't get platinum and went for a J stone instead of a H or G, SI1, with a decent cut. i wanted at LEAST two carats but would have to go smaller to save money. and i don't wanted fancy colors. fancy color synthetic diamonds would make the cost lower too. too many things to give up that i'm not willing to give up!

if the Asha has the same look and you can't easily tell it from natural diamond, then this is the way to go for us. i might want to do a review. i've looked at some many natural stones my eyes are crossed.

[sricenbaw]

after reading this review i was curious about Asha stones. i have been trying to design a ring for a while and was just discouraged at the cost of the genuine stones that i was looking at in the cuts i wanted. the custome work plus the stones would've made the total cost $20,000, maybe slightly less if i didn't get platinum and went for a J stone instead of a H or G, SI1, with a decent cut. i wanted at LEAST two carats but would have to go smaller to save money. and i don't wanted fancy colors. fancy color synthetic diamonds would make the cost lower too. too many things to give up that i'm not willing to give up!

if the Asha has the same look and you can't easily tell it from natural diamond, then this is the way to go for us. i might want to do a review. i've looked at some many natural stones my eyes are crossed.

You won't be disappointed!!