Paypal payment

[CatchNRelease]

I would like to make the suggestion that we ban payments by PayPal gift, or at least stop sales that require it.

I know rep deals are buyer beware type things anyway but if I wanted that level of uncertainty I'd buy my watches through alibaba and pay by bank wire. I deal through this community because that used to mean at least some level of stability and at least some form of fall back if the deal went sour.

Am I being unreasonable here? I have missed out on two deals for TC subs because I refused to pay by gift (I offered to cover the fees in each circumstance). I figured my 80+ reputation score and high post count would at least count for some small level of trust.

[kingair]

I agree with you that it's absolutely absurd that now people are demanding PayPal gift. Have people been burned that much by paying PayPal goods that it's been necessary to only take PayPal gift?

I also missed out on a sale because the seller wouldn't accept non gift PayPal and I even offered to pay the PayPal fees. The item cost more than $600 and I just preferred to document the purchase as goods and wanted some level of security. Me personally, I'll pay gift for small value purchase but I would not pay gift for something over $300.


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[kevinmf]

The other issue is for ppl like me who are based in place like the UAE where we don't have an option of PayPal gift .. Again I have missed out on a couple of deals cause sellers insisting of PayPal gift even when I have offered to pay the PayPal fees .. Really don't understand why sellers insist on PayPal gift ..


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[Galt]

PayPal gift option makes the seller feel warm and fuzzy.


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[Horlogeman]

Well I got to admit when I deal with somebody with a 81 feedback count I wouldn't even dare to ask for a gift option hahaha. But some people don't have many feedbacks or I just don't have a good feeling about it and than I hit the "GIFT" method.

[CatchNRelease]

Well I got to admit when I deal with somebody with a 81 feedback count I wouldn't even dare to ask for a gift option hahaha. But some people don't have many feedbacks or I just don't have a good feeling about it and than I hit the "GIFT" method.

a name like catch and release, you don't earn that name without buying and selling a bunch of stuff

[fenetik]

I tend to agree with the ideas presented in this discussion. As a seller, I refuse gift payments as I want to create transparency and trust on both sides of the transaction. For a higher ticket item, I wont transact with unproven members as the last thing I need is a scam claim from some joker. Having said that, there are a couple members here with whom I have repeat transactions; in that case the gift method is quite convenient and so I think an outright ban is maybe too much.

[CatchNRelease]

The outright ban may be too much, but saying that is the know payment type you'll take from the beginning isn't in the best interest of the community IMO

[on+time]

It's not of course the "only" method I myself will accept but I admit I'll request it to prevent funds from being held for up to 21 days.
And I'll pretty much demand it with Int'l sales: entering tracking info on a Int'l transaction is something I do my best to avoid at all costs.
Reason being: some Int'l parcels can take up to 30 days or more to arrive meaning funds from that transaction are held until tracking shows having been delivered.
At least that's the case with my account.
That's a huge issue for me: the watch I had on my wrist a few days ago arrived to me with signature required via Registered Int'l.
To this day that tracking info shows the watch is still sitting in the customs sort center in Chicago: were the tables turned in that deal I'd still be waiting for the funds to be released to me.
Heaven forbid a package gets lost: I'd have to cut flips through rings of fire to get the funds released and repeated calls to paypal draws attention that I don't care to draw to myself.

[Probus Scafusia]

Can I just point out that this perceived 'security' through Paypal is a complete and utter myth.

It is VERY clear in the terms of agreement that Paypal operate on a 'best effort' basis to recover funds. If the other party has no funds in their account, you cannot get a refund and Paypal has no power of enforcement whatsoever as they are not a financial institution, merely a money transfer service.
The ONLY exception to this is if you make a purchase through eBay.... Which we are not.

Please can we also remember that we are buying and selling illegal goods. So what happens when Paypal can't recover the funds? Are you going to link Paypal or law enforcement to the sales thread? Contact trading standards? You're basically saying "I tried committing a crime and someone committed a crime in return... Please help". They might break a rib laughing.
People are so nervous and trigger happy with the 'dispute' button now it's not even worth it.

The number of phished Paypal accounts is now huge. Someone can purchase a fully verified established account, buy whatever they want and run.

I've had many,many bad experiences with Paypal and researched their service extensively and it's full of loopholes, smoke and mirrors. Outside of eBay there is nothing secure about Paypal whatsoever. They just have great marketing people and glossy adverts.

For all the above reasons I will only do trades by bank wire. I don't care if people don't like that, they don't have to buy!

[d1ngle]

Probably because with Paypal if it's not gift then the buyer can scam the seller and keep the watch and the money?

Paypal is great for the buyer, but not for the seller.

Paypal on Ebay is crazy. I would never sell a gen watch on Ebay. My friend sold a gen Pam and pulled the sale after he found out that Paypal would keep the money and not allow withdrawal for 30-90 days in case a dispute was opened. Basically you sell a $5k watch and the buyer can just say "dispute" send you a Canal street special back and get their money back!

[qed]

Please can we also remember that we are buying and selling illegal goods.

Lots of countries that don't ban buying/selling reps as long as item is for personal use. For example not illegal in Norway.

Just a small FYI :-)

[Probus Scafusia]

Lots of countries that don't ban buying/selling reps as long as item is for personal use. For example not illegal in Norway.

Just a small FYI :-)

Sure, I get that, but you know what I mean... A lot of self-righteous law enforcement and especially trading standards (who handle all cases involving the purchase of goods) just wouldn't even entertain a complaint about fake watch trades. We're pretty much on our own and take the risks!

[peyups]

Probably because with Paypal if it's not gift then the buyer can scam the seller and keep the watch and the money?

Paypal is great for the buyer, but not for the seller.

Paypal on Ebay is crazy. I would never sell a gen watch on Ebay. My friend sold a gen Pam and pulled the sale after he found out that Paypal would keep the money and not allow withdrawal for 30-90 days in case a dispute was opened. Basically you sell a $5k watch and the buyer can just say "dispute" send you a Canal street special back and get their money back!

Yes that's why, basically too much risk on the seller side.
But if you're the buyer its all rainbow and butterflies.

[Packers12]

I couldn't agree with you more. Those basterds have "held" so much money from me. That's why I'll send in invoice through an invoicing service, like Waveapps, or use the Cash app. There are countless providers out there other than PayPal. $hit, for trades use Venmo.

Anyime the buyer uses their CC or debit card, they are always protected by the issuing bank and can always open a chargeback and 98% of the time get their money back.

I think bank transfer is the only safest way to go, especially dealing with high dollar amount and when you don't know the person on the other side of the deal.

I mean you can scam as a buyer or a seller, but to your point, PayPal sides with the buyer 100% of the time and you can be completely hosed. Most people are brainwashed and will only use PayPal because they're the big giant in the game and use scare tactics on consumers that they are the only safe way to pay.

[RolexLuver]

I guess I am one of those who never feared a PayPal deal and after hundreds of transactions , Never had a charge back, Even when selling my rep watches,
I prefer using VISA becasue my bank protects me more than PayPal. I get a text when money is charges out of country and asked if I want to proceed or dent. If I proceed and get ripped off I can still make a claim and the Bank will resolve in my favor. THat comes with having all of our liquid assets in the bank and Merrill Lynch

I don't worry about TDs. THey have never dissapointed me. Whether REP or GEN.

[Alkoooon]

am also from Dubai and I missed many deals due to seller paypal gift option they require!!!

people lost trust these days �� I dont blame anyone....everybody wants to assure his rights

[cbn72]

I mostly buy my watches by gift, to well known members, this also as PP fees sometimes are killing..