No worries whatsoever with that however simply factoring in the 3% is preferable.Originally Posted by Novesh
Since I think I have bought more watches from you than from any other sources combined I have no issues gifting you money which colors my take on the matter
Vápnum sínum skala maðr velli á feti ganga framar
því at óvist er at vita nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
- Havamal 38
Make it a rule that no mention of PP as Gift is allowed. Removed the ambiguity instead of all these facial expressions.I see no issues with a member reminding potential buyers that PP "Gift" is at the buyers EXCLUSIVE risk and the Mod/Admin team frown HEAVILY on posting it in sales threads.
It's true
That thread should have been closed for Post Count, and poorly tagged pics well before it should have been closed for the PP as a Gift "Frowny"
Those above my pay grade have decided that policing sales threads for PP Gift on top of tagged photos, post counts, email addresses etc. etc. etc. would add another layer of work on top of what we already have. We also do not police PMs so ensuring that option was not used in a transaction would essentially be unenforceable.Make it a rule that no mention of PP as Gift is allowed. Removed the ambiguity instead of all these facial expressions.
That thread should have been closed for Post Count, and poorly tagged pics well before it should have been closed for the PP as a Gift "Frowny"
As for why it was closed- I got there after the closure so I didn't get to see the original and can't comment towards that.
We can sit here all day and pi$$ in each others cornflakes and whine and moan about the new rules, reasons for their implementation, what should be done, what could be done, what should have happened.... it's an endless cycle.
The rules are the rules. Gift is allowed but is NOT recommended. If a member wishes to point that out to an OP they are more than welcome to do so.
Vápnum sínum skala maðr velli á feti ganga framar
því at óvist er at vita nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
- Havamal 38
without adding too much complexity the trade form could be updated to post the warning there on payment forms. Maybe something like in a highlighted color: "The only form of payment endorsed by RG admin is PP as purchase. Any other form of payment should be treated as buyer's own risk."
New members may not be aware of the risks involved with different forms of payment.
PayPal is a great tool when it is used correctly. It makes transactions go quicker than the old days when you had to send a wire, Western Union, or maybe even a money order.
For use of the service, one should pay for it. Trying to circumvent the system is why people get hurt. Following the rules helps everyone. I know of two people that recently had problems with using PP gift as a payment option. Why risk getting your account suspended over not paying fees or even taking the risk of fraud either? You don't get "something for nothing" meaning free service.
Sellers, do everyone a favor and just make sure to add PP fees into your selling price! If you as a buyer decide to use PP the gift way, you deserve what happens. Mods should not have to police this...use common sense everyone!
I would only use PP as a gift with sellers I had used in the past and trusted explicitly. You take a lot of risks when sending as a gift.
But why ? to save $5 and risk $150.
Can't see the point.
Also the main reason is not the saving but the fact you give up all right to any recourse.
Fact if a seller is asking as a gift then they are doing so to avoid any possible problems later
From a buyers point you will have no one to blame but yourself if you send as a gift
With all the crap going on in the sales forum I can't understand why people are even considering using gift as an option
Regardless of how much you trust someone if you are not in a position to lose the money and not care then pay the seller as a normal transaction
If you are not buying from us you are paying too much!!! Like for like we are the cheapest on the net
PayPal as a gift- Doesn't that mean nothing HAS to be sent in return?
Isn't that the spirit of giving a gift?
That said, is the big problem that those who request payment as a gift just can't figure out how to get the final price they want after PP removes fees (and thus the mods may be hesitant to create a "NO PP AS GIFT" rule)?
Maybe I can make it easier: Divide your desired "money-in-hand" by (1 minus PayPal's percentage).
Example: If you want 100 "whatevers", and PayPal charges you 3%, divide 100 by (1-.03) or, 100/.97. This yields a sell price of 103.09.
There, now there's no reason for this "PP as Gift" B.S. (unless you're trying to f_ck someone over).
I just sold a watch for 200 bucks. 200 bucks as a PP "Purchase".
The buyer even ASKED ME if I would like it as a Gift to which I said no- Purchase of Goods gives you another layer of protection against theft/loss in transit as well as keeps my PP account from gathering too much attention. Gift is a hassle if you're receiving too many and as a buyer you have ZERO recourse and at the end of the day it's 6 damn dollars. C'mon people it's 3 bucks on the hundred!! They aren't charging 15% here- hell the 6 bucks I paid for the peace of mind knowing that both my buyer and I have some protection is less than I spend for a cup of coffee and a bagel!
My own personal feelings are if you pay using "Gift" you have sent the other member money as a gift. If (and I do mean IF) they choose to send you something as a "thank you" all the better. If not- oh well you GAVE THEM A GIFT.
Vápnum sínum skala maðr velli á feti ganga framar
því at óvist er at vita nær verðr á vegum úti geirs um þörf guma
- Havamal 38
This is actually a awsome idea and would keep everyone happy I beleive. This is also probably a pretty easy thing to do.
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Bloddy Hell... its 3% people! If you cannot afford it maybe another hobby is in order.
If you insist on "gift" then dont whine when you get screwed.
Some people are like slinkies... not really good for anything, but both bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs...
I enjoy reading the arguments for and against the use of PP "gift" payments.
To those of you who claim that "it's only 3% more" to pay as a regular PP payment, I can't help but wonder if you would make an offer that was "only 3% lower" than the advertised sale price to save yourself a few bucks.
Please discuss.
In reference to the 3% argument, I had a few buyers back out when they were told the two options of payment....so I am guessing people do think 3% is enough of a difference to make or break a deal.
Well, I think it's still a bit stupid that asking for PP as a gift is such a big offence to everyone. I'll still be using it as an option, leaving it up to the buyer to pay the fee, if you really wan't to pay an extra 4%. I mean not using PP gift is still no warranty, for not getting cheated and we all also frown uppon people who makes disputes... then why is the gift option so bad. To me it's a really nice option not to give the bast#¤ds at PP, my money... and it does not by default make me a scammer.
A few members have also reported that excessive use of the "gift" option, has resulted in PP investigating the "gifts" on both sides of the transaction (by sending forms for each to fill out), and freezing your account until they are satisfied you haven't been abusing it. You know, typical PP B.S.
Anyway, I think TX's suggestion is a great idea, and would negate the need (or impulse) of anyone posting a reminder.
WTB: DSN "old turquoise with black sub-dial" 089 dial
22mm Panerai rounded buckle for 204 Wempe
I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but I still stand out from the rest
They read a bunch of words, I lived a bunch of life .... Jay Z
* Legal Disclaimer: Any advice I may give, is given as an absolute amateur, and should only be followed if you are desperate and have no alternatives, even then think twice.
I take absolutely no responsibility in facilitating the destruction of that new watch you just bought, or in causing you to be locked up in a mental institution.
Ok, did not know that. PP piss@s me off. Couldn't we start our own payment company...
You can use moneybookers pretty safe too! I've used it a few times including to buy an expensive watch here with no problems. You can even get a moneybookers mastercard now and use it as a debit card anywhere in the world on the mastercard network.
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Not personally, If I like something I'll buy it but I'm sure it will happen.
Some people are like slinkies... not really good for anything, but both bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs...
All due respect, but the removal of the damn silly filter on mention of J&A can be credited to the new primary admin (trailboss) - it was his decision and his alone. D4M's retirement from rep sales is entirely unconnected.
I know the conspiracy theories are fun, but let's keep the tinfoilhattedness to a minimum, huh?
Last edited by greg_r; 02-18-2010 at 03:55 PM.
Certified PAM whore...
***ORIGINAL LINE EDITED FOR THOSE OFFENDED BY MY DESCRIPTION OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEMINGLY NEVER LIVED IN THE REAL WORLD AS (ORIGINAL INCOMPLETE EXPLETIVE DELETED)***
I am amazed at how many people have seemingly never paid a fee or incurred a cost to sell something.
I guess they've never put an ad in the classifieds to sell a car, taken a loss selling a used item (as in: I paid $500 plus shipping of $30, so it cvost me $530. I'll let it go for $515. OK, I paid $300 for the iphone, but I had to spend gas money and personal to go pick it up. I'll let it go for $350), or worked in a business that had to pay overhead costs (like rent, electricity, equipment costs, etc.).
If they had, they'd understand that you factor these things into your final price so you can cover your nut (while, in the case of retail, try to make a profit too).
As for not watning to pay any PP fees - then get in your frakkin car and drive the money to where it needs to go! Pick up your watch while you're there.
I'd like my bank to give me interest-free loans; I'd like USPS/UPS/FEDEX to deliver for free; I'd like the local watchmaker to grease & pressure test my watch for free, but this is the real world. We pay for services that others provide. It's bad enough we all have watches that steal from someone else. Do we have to screw everyone?
Get used to it (or at least get over it).
End of rant.
Last edited by robbnj; 02-19-2010 at 02:12 AM.
If you can't get your point across without calling others names perhaps this isn't the board for you.
You may have made some valid points in your reply but it doesn't really matter after that opening.
+1000
I agree with you that D4M's position as a dealer had little to do with that (given the fact you had to jump thru a few hoops just to find his stuff). He wasn't competition for any of the other dealers.All due respect, but the removal of the damn silly filter on mention of J&A can be credited to the new primary admin (trailboss) - it was his decision and his alone. D4M's retirement from rep sales is entirely unconnected.
I know the conspiracy theories are fun, but let's keep the tinfoilhattedness to a minimum, huh?
However I think the overall "vibe" around preferred dealers there went beyond a filter to remove Joshua/Andrew posts or any single admin act. I started there before finding RG and there was an overall strange focus on promoting certain sellers while almost "banning" you for mentioning others (or at least getting your posts utterly ignored). While here at RG the vast majority of the discussions are about exchanging information there it was(is?) too focus on dealers.
Again, I hope they find whatever is the place they feel is right for them.
didn't know the dangers of this!
Last edited by Questions; 02-19-2010 at 09:15 PM.
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