Me And A Gun

**Posh** · 10-11-2008, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by sfa437

Posh-

My point exactly. Maybe I didn't make my post clear enough.

There is enough guidance in those kid's lives that they would strap on 10 pounds of Semtex and some ball bearings and go high order in a crowd. Is that acceptable behavior in a normal society? Of course not. But they have someone to look up to and emulate.

My value systems vice their father's are most definitely different. I do not instill hate in my child towards anybody. I've even gone so far as to tell him, and explain to him, that those who are shooting at me here are doing what they think is right for their country and should be respected. My son gives no thought to skin color, religion or nationality whatsoever and brags he has Iraqi friends (my interpreters talk to him on Yahoo when I am on). It's sunk in too, something he'll carry for life.

My job takes me all over the planet. I could turn down GS15 pay and go back to being a police officer at 1/12th the salary. Then again there goes his basic education (back to NC), our home in NY (where my wife and I were raised), his private high school (Chaminade) and quite a few other things.

I know of very few people who would walk away from 150 a year to go back to 25 a year. 3 years of separation for a lifetime of benefit seems a fair trade.

Taking lives so your family can have more stuff with the money? Sounds reasonable to me. As much as I am all about education and knowledge at any price, I don't think killing people for it is the best route.

How about scholarships, living somewhere less expensive and budgeting by (gasp!) not buying a bunch of replica watches?

**Guanaco** · 10-11-2008, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Posh

Taking lives so your family can have more stuff with the money? Sounds reasonable to me. As much as I am all about education and knowledge at any price, I don't think killing people for it is the best route.

How about scholarships, living somewhere less expensive and budgeting by (gasp!) not buying a bunch of replica watches?

I'm sorry, but the things he's killing are not people, I consider insurgents scum, cowards and terrorists. He's making an honest living defending his country.

**Posh** · 10-11-2008, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Guanaco

I'm sorry, but the things he's killing are not people, I consider insurgents scum, cowards and terrorists. He's making an honest living defending his country.

Whoa. If he's not killing another human being, then what is he killing? They're not stuffed animals. They are people, regardless of how you feel about them. They have families, hopes and dreams too.

**Guanaco** · 10-11-2008, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Posh

Whoa. If he's not killing another human being, then what is he killing? They're not stuffed animals. They are people, regardless of how you feel about them. They have families, hopes and dreams too.

Their hopes and aspirations are pretty much killing U.S. soldiers and jihading... so much for their happy hopes and dreams.

I say kill them before they kill anyone.

Oh and those were the same 'humans' beheading/executing innocent people. So much for being human.

**painm8ker** · 10-11-2008, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Posh

You're thousands of miles away from your child, and you're away from the most formative years of your child willingly, by choice which is AMAZING to me.

Posh,

WOW that is harsh, live under an umbrella of freedom provided by people who volunteer to sacrifice for all our collective good and then criticize their parenting. COLD. Wars have never been fought by childless men, most men in the military have children. You can be a good parent and do your duty. Its not all or nothing, being there everyday is great, I have that luxury now and I love it, but I didn't for a while and I don't look down on those who provide me with that luxury now, I respect their sacrifice and offer to help their families. even if you don't agree with the point of the war the guys who sacrifice for what they think is right even if it does make there kids lives tougher deserve respect and compassion not ridicule.

**painm8ker** · 10-12-2008, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Guanaco

I'm sorry, but the things he's killing are not people, I consider insurgents scum, cowards and terrorists. He's making an honest living defending his country.

Guanaco,

Good and bad are all about perspective, the good Iraqis today were bad Iraqis a couple years ago when we were attacking them, the insurgents today may be on our side in another couple years.They are people just like our guys fighting for what they believe is right. Maybe they are misguided but its out of ignorance or just being wrong its not malice or evil.

George Washington would have been called an insurgent if he lost. Remember the Trenton thing where he snuck in the hessian camp in the middle of the night and killed them in their sleep?

That's what real war is killing good people because because we are to stupid to think of another way. That's why so many soldiers feel so much guilt when they come home.

**Guanaco** · 10-12-2008, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by painm8ker

Guanaco,

Good and bad are all about perspective, the good Iraqis today were bad Iraqis a couple years ago when we were attacking them, the insurgents today may be on our side in another couple years.They are people just like our guys fighting for what they believe is right. Maybe they are misguided but its out of ignorance or just being wrong its not malice or evil.

George Washington would have been called an insurgent if he lost. Remember the Trenton thing where he snuck in the hessian camp in the middle of the night and killed them in their sleep?

That's what real war is killing good people because because we are to stupid to think of another way. That's why so many soldiers feel so much guilt when they come home.

You have a good point, however these extremists take it too far to be considered human, at least by me, killing innocents in such a cruel way.

**LoganX3** · 10-12-2008, 12:45 AM

sfa, what you're doing is admirable, whether anyone wants to acknowledge that or not.
yes, you willingly left your family, but for the betterment of our country. how many other people would do that? It's because of people like sfa, that there is no draft...
I don't support the war necessarily, but I do support people like you who step up to the plate and do what most of cannot or do not want to do.
i don't think it's right for anyone to attack you for being in the military.
how this thread ever got that far is beyond me...
I respect sfa and Posh and harbor no ill will towards either, let's just keep it civil guys.
attacking someone does not help support your ideas and beliefs.

STAY CLASSY, SAN DIEGO.

**painm8ker** · 10-12-2008, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Guanaco

You have a good point, however these extremists take it too far to be considered human, at least by me, killing innocents in such a cruel way.

Agreed, but keep in mind the guys who kill Innocents are a very small percentage and the definition of Innocent is again a mater of perspective. in 1944 the US Bombed Dresden in Germany and killed 80,000 civilians in one series of raids. Not to mention the Atomic bombings in Japan. Were the tens of thousands of children kill in those bombings innocent? The pilots went home and kissed their kids. its not black and white. People don't generally come in Good and Bad varieties.

**Ximenes** · 10-12-2008, 01:00 AM

whether one agrees or no.. this is a SUPERPOST!

**Guanaco** · 10-12-2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by painm8ker

Agreed, but keep in mind the guys who kill Innocents are a very small percentage and the definition of Innocent is again a mater of perspective. in 1944 the US Bombed Dresden in Germany and killed 80,000 civilians in one series of raids. Not to mention the Atomic bombings in Japan. Were the tens of thousands of children kill in those bombings innocent? The pilots went home and kissed their kids. its not black and white. People don't generally come in Good and Bad varieties.

Bomb = instant death and no suffering.

Slicing someone's head.... ouch.

Looking at what you said, the bombings had some serious collateral damage, and I can't argue and say that was a good thing. But the targets weren't the civilians. I just believe that someone who kills innocents just because they're from a certain nationality, sex, sexual preference, race or religion is just plain wrong; Take the reporters or truck drivers that got executed for example, why them? Why in such a cruel way? No mate, those insurgents are scum.

**Posh** · 10-12-2008, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Guanaco

Bomb = instant death and no suffering.

Slicing someone's head.... ouch.

Looking at what you said, the bombings had some serious collateral damage, and I can't argue and say that was a good thing. But the targets weren't the civilians. I just believe that someone who kills innocents just because they're from a certain nationality, sex, sexual preference, race or religion is just plain wrong; Take the reporters or truck drivers that got executed for example, why them? Why in such a cruel way? No mate, those insurgents are scum.

A human being is not "collateral damage." These are real people with real feelings and real emotions and real families. Remember that. Everybody's has a life.

I'm anti-war anyway in addition to being anti-gun. However, I'm pro-life. If you don't wanna die, Saint Posh will review your application.

**Guanaco** · 10-12-2008, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Posh

I'm anti-war anyway in addition to being anti-gun. However, I'm pro-life.

You're kidding me! And all this time I thought you were NRA like me.

**Guanaco** · 10-12-2008, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by Posh

A human being is not "collateral damage." These are real people with real feelings and real emotions and real families. Remember that. Everybody's has a life.

Put an insurgent in front of me, the ones killing U.S. troops, and you can bet I'll put a bullet through his head. They can be people to you, just like PETA seems to think animals weren't meant to be eaten by humans. War is hell, there's no other way to put it, it's never nice. And if you support insurgents, and think of them as humans, then I'm sorry, but you're just not thinking rationally.

**painm8ker** · 10-12-2008, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Guanaco

And if you support insurgents, and think of them as humans, then I'm sorry, but you're just not thinking rationally.

Understanding that they are human and supporting them are not the same. Not wanting to kill them and supporting them is not the same either.

**Guanaco** · 10-12-2008, 01:45 AM

Keyword: "If"

**painm8ker** · 10-12-2008, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by Guanaco

Bomb = instant death and no suffering.

Slicing someone's head.... ouch.

Looking at what you said, the bombings had some serious collateral damage, and I can't argue and say that was a good thing. But the targets weren't the civilians.

Yes the civilians were the target, its called strategic bombing, undermine the enemies ability to wage war by destroying his industrial capabilities

I just believe that someone who kills innocents just because they're from a certain nationality, sex, sexual preference, race or religion is just plain wrong; Take the reporters or truck drivers that got executed for example, why them? Why in such a cruel way? No mate, those insurgents are scum.

Um, all war is about nationality isn't it?

**Kollektor** · 10-12-2008, 01:55 AM

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Posh

A human being is not "collateral damage." These are real people with real feelings and real emotions and real families. Remember that. Everybody's has a life.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Put an insurgent in front of me, the ones killing U.S. troops, and you can bet I'll put a bullet through his head. They can be people to you, just like PETA seems to think animals weren't meant to be eaten by humans. War is hell, there's no other way to put it, it's never nice. And if you support insurgents, and think of them as humans, then I'm sorry, but you're just not thinking rationally.

+1 Guan.

Western humanism is all fine and dandy in the civilized ivory towers of liberal academia, but when frenzied religious zealots are firing 7.62s at you, Darwinism starts to make a bit more sense. Easy to judge when you don't have direct interface with fundamentalists.

Whether it's nature, nurture or both, human beings are capable of evil. Of course, every group justifies its own actions as moral. There's a famous saying... "The path of a fool is right in his own eyes." As long as terrorists will resort to guerrilla warfare by embedding themselves in civilian populations (that are often supportive of these fighters, I might add), there will be collateral damage.

If anybody has any other pragmatic solutions to this dilemma, you'll get my vote.

@Posh - being "anti-war" is commendable as an ideal. But as a movement, it's indicative of Reactionary Left politics. We should avoid war when there is room for effective diplomacy. But when there are no other options are you really saying you're opposed to war? That, in my view, supports evil. If war was not an option, evil would impose itself upon us. Whether it's Hitler, Chavez, bin Ladin, Iran, Russia, or other tyrannical regimes, you would not have the luxury to pontificate about being anti-war... without suffering the consequences.

**Guanaco** · 10-12-2008, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by painm8ker

Um, all war is about nationality isn't it?

Not really, some wars are also for interests like oil, gold, diamonds, etc. Every war has a different motive.

**bebenn** · 10-12-2008, 02:10 AM

POSH'S NEXT POST:

"I am against animal torture, and you should be too!!!!!

**Guanaco** · 10-12-2008, 02:15 AM

lol - I'm actually against animal torture, however, not like those crazy PETA screw ups who think having pets is torturing animals. I happen to find animals very tasty BTW.