Me And A Gun

[Posh]

I was torn between three different titles, one using Aerosmith's Janie's Got A Gun and the third using Pearl Jam's Jeremy. I settled on Tori Amos' Me and a Gun which is her song about her brutal rape at gun point in the 1980s after a performance she gave at a bar, just before she became very famous. The harrowing experience was immortalized and dealt with by the cathartic writing of this song, a song that she performs infrequently, for many obvious and not so obvious reasons. However, when she does, it's often acapella, sitting on a stool with no lights on in the venue except for a single spotlight directly above her head. This song allowed her to take back what she lost that day at the end of that gun. I'm proud to say that I am a member and supporter of RAINN in part because of this song.


Tori now mostly performs this song with a full band as her American Doll alter ego, Pip, with disturbing props.

But that's not completely what this post is about. The Obama post has a lot of people singing the praises of children being in contact with guns. I have no idea when being able to use, clean and handle guns became a part of a fulfilling childhood. I'm very glad I wasn't privy to that aspect of being an "well-adjusted" child. You know what we have today? Child soldiers from kids being indoctrinated very early into the whole war, violence and gun culture. I know what you're going to say:



I'm not going to inundate this post with a lot of written statistics because I just don't have the time and it would upset me too much, with this post already taking to me to a place I don't want to go. The numbers and arguments, both in favor of kids having access to guns and not, are out there if you want to use them in support of my stance or to take it down, if you care to look for them. I'm going to go with my heart on this one and say that childhood should be filled with as little access to strife and fear as possible. The effects of a childhood lived in the opposite way is apparent everyday around the world. In the Obama post, it was mentioned that children not being treated little adults is a relatively new construct, with which I will partially agree. Thanks to advancements in society, children can be allowed to be children without being sold off into marriage or placed on a battlefield, at least most parts of the country. But it doesn't matter what it used to be like 100 or 1,000 year ago; now, children are expected to have formative years filled with security, love, fun, learning and happiness.

Another member stated in the Obama thread that fear of guns is for some reason "creepy." Why wouldn't you be afraid since guns were created for one specific reason: the destruction of not just life, but human life. Anyway, I'm considered so "wordy" around here by so few who matter in my life, I'm going to let these pictures (and the AP) do the talking. I have to thank a publishing pal for compilation of these pictures for this post! I would also like to state that this is NOT about "conservative" or "liberal." For me, this about life and what I think G-d would want. That's my belief and I stand by it.

My posts are open to all viewpoints (I don't like most forms of censorship) and anybody feeling one way or another is welcome to comment or not as long as you keep it civil, out respect for me, the founders of RG and fellow members. This doesn't mean you should exorcise passion from your post; this subject is inherently draws out passion responses. So I'll start.

Anybody who thinks kids with guns is cool is a:



A four year old Iraq child cries as older boys stage a mock execution in Baghdad, Iraq, Monday, July 2, 2007. Children's games are under a heavy influence of ongoing violence in the country, one of the more popular ones being a clash between militias and police.


Samboo, a 12-year-old soldier in the Karen rebel army fighting against Myanmar's military, poses with his rifle in a jungle camp on the border with Thailand in this January 31, 2000 file photo. The United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) on October 30 called for the demobilisation of 70,000 child soldiers, some as young as seven, fighting in armies across East Asia.


















Trench coat Mafia anyone? I'm sure he's very popular amongst his peers.


Unfortunately, kids around the world like to play with guns. But in the Palestinian territories the games take on a sinister undertone when almost every boy seems to carry a fake weapon and children reenact in detail the shootings and arrests they witness on the streets. Picture taken October 13, 2007.


In a mixed but hopeful report released this week by the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers, in the past four years the use of children as soldiers has dropped from 27 percent in 2004 to 17 percent this year. It's not completely positive, however, as this trend could be a correlation resulting from ending conflicts altogether as opposed to the discontinuation of using children as soldiers.

The children gleefully threw their guns into a bonfire, most of them AK-47 and M-16 rifles and cheered as they were destroyed. Some of the children even wore placards reading, “We hate toy guns. We love football." The guns in India were toys — though some children shoulder real weapons in times of war. To see the light at the end of this tunnel, read more.


Children hold their toy guns prior to burning them at Keinou, 25 miles (40 kilometers) south of Imphal, India, Wednesday, May 21, 2008. Hundreds of village children in India's insurgency-wracked northeast burned their toy guns in a symbolic protest against the violence in Manipur state, where at least 17 rebel groups have been fighting for independent homelands or autonomy. More than 5,000 people have been killed in the fighting over the past 10 years.




Uruguayan school children observe confiscated guns before being destroyed in front of Congress in Montevideo, during the launch of a program to decrease the number of guns circulating in the civilian population, May 23, 2008. According to government statistics there is one gun in circulation for every three Uruguayan citizens.


A member of the Baath militia giving his kids guns.











Samaritan children play with toy guns, 30 April 2007, before the sacrifice of the Passover ceremony at Mount Gerizim near the northern West Bank city of Nablus. The Samaritan religion is based on four principles of faith, One God-The God of Israel; One Prophet-Moses Ben Amram; The Belief in The TORAH-the first five books of the bible and One Holy Place-Mount Gerizim. The Samaritan community numbers about 720 people, half at Mount Gerizin in the West Bank and the others in Holon near Tel Aviv in Israel.




Palestinian children play with toy guns during the second day of Eid al-Fitr at al-Amaari refugee camp in the West Bank city of Ramallah October 14, 2007. The three-day holiday marks the end of the Muslim holy fasting month of Ramadan.

[merkman]

I don't know what to say, other than I'm glad I wasn't raised with guns, and haven't had to deal with most of the atrocities in this thread. I suppose that makes me evil on some level, not taking some sort of role or stance on this. But I'm just not the sort who can find positives in something so negative and disturbing.

[Guanaco]

I was raised with guns, and properly taught about them. Never had had an accident and my life is just as everyone else's, aka I'm no psycho nor any accidents occurred; my dad kept automatic guns in the house too, no problem there. We were taught 1st hand the danger of guns, what they should be used for ONLY and why. Anyone can be raised properly with guns around, the keyword here is 'proper', those kids in the pics above know no better than shooting 'infidels' is a-ok! And that's just plain stupid. Guns don't kill people, but they sure do make it easier .

I love guns, but in the wrong hands guns are more dangerous than a blind cab driver driving at full speed.

[Chris V.]

hmm.

[mickeypro]

i gotta dog, all the protection I need

[razorphish]

This thread will be in the bin in 5, 4, 3, 2 ...

[Chris V.]

1.

[Chris V.]

not exactly what i want to see in a post.. is children holding guns.

[Guanaco]

not exactly what i want to see in a post.. is children holding guns.

I see nothing wrong on posting that; it's a sad reality we live in when kids use guns on their everyday lives.

P.s. Your avatar is creepy. O_o

[trevor2079]

My dad brought me shooting when I was 5. I grew up with a respect for guns. I don't think there is any problem teaching children how to hold and shoot a firearm. Guns in a household with children is far more dangerous if they don't know how to handle them.

[razorphish]

I see nothing wrong on posting that; it's a sad reality we live in when kids use guns on their everyday lives.

P.s. Your avatar is creepy. O_o

I respect your opinion, but I have issue with this post because this is a watch forum. Not a social commentary forum, not a weapons forum, not a creepy artist forum, not a manbag forum. This is a watch forum.

I'll be the first to admit, in the past, I posted a few threads regarding off - topic subjects that I found interesting. However, what I realized, is that they were annoying. Although, well received, they were annoying because this is a watch forum.

I believe that we're surrounded by enough ****e on a daily basis. I don't want to visit the forum dedicated to my beloved hobby and see photos of kids holding weapons. That's not what this forum should be about.

This is a watch forum.

Kyle

[Guanaco]

While that may be true, there is an Off-Topic section for this sort of thing too.

[drhydro]

Posh, thank you for this- these images should make all of us stop and think about the horror and insanity of hate and violence which has become so much a part of peoples' lives that assault weapons can be carried around the streets by children. It's an abomination.

And before you start, whoever you are, I own guns. Sometimes I even shoot 'em. Some of 'em are collectors' items, all of them I consider fine examples of artisanry and I value them... But I will tell you this- if it were possible to eliminate these kinds of weapons, and others, from this earth, to arrange things so that every time a human being was tempted to use *anything* as a weapon in anger it would simply disappear, leaving its wielder surprised and empty-handed....
if this were possible, I would happily give up every rifle, pistol, shotgun, cap pistol, fork, knife, pitchfork, shovel, broken bottle neck, tire iron, set of brass knuckles, you name it, that I own... if only by doing so I could be sure that these photos you've posted would never be possible to take.

And yep, this probably belongs in the off-topic section.

[Starbelly]

I don't mind the images, either.

However, I feel compelled to note that Tori, despite the name of her song, was not held at gun point. She was threatened and held against her will with a knife.

[hypoluxo]

When I see those images of the kids with guns, it is not the guns that I find scary. It is the culture and brainwashing that influences those kids that is scary. Take away that culture that devalues life, and those guns would be a means of protection instead of a means of aggression.

Unfortunately, all of human history tells us that we will always be faced with aggressors in our world. You will be safe with your dog only until the guy with the gun shows up.

-lux

[rAc]

Its not the guns, its the upbringing these kids have. If there were no guns, and weapons were only limited to sharp objects, every one of those kids would either have a knife, sword or bow's and arrows, because that is what they are raised with.

The problem and answer starts with the parents, there is no way around that, if those same kids were taught what guns can do and to respect them, then shown that on a daily basis in the home, they would not be the way they are now, poor parenting and brainwashing of societies is what is going on here.

Also another note, none of these issues seem to happen in the states, or other countries with tight gun control laws. Every once in a while some idiot shoots his wife/kids by accident while "cleaning" his gun. And sometimes some random kid shoots other kids. But that is still lack of knowledge and respect for the gun.

[Pugwash]

I will not be commenting on this thread, apart from to ironically post I won't be posting.




.

[bebenn]

This thread should be in the "Off Topic" forum, not the General Replica Forum.

[pc12drvr]

More children robbed of childhood

It all depends on what you see as upsetting based on your value system.

Just stirring the pot. . .

(Stir. . .Stir. . .Stir. . .)

[capt_cope]

You know I don't even know how to respond to posh. I honestly didn't think anyone was that dull. Yes! It MUST be the guns that's why we have children soldiers! Don't forget that pens are the culprit behind misspellings, and bridges cause suicide.

Did you forget to go to high school philosophy or something posh? That's probably the most obviously false argument I've ever seen.

[The_Monkey]

Posh, you seem to have a view that all any gun is good for is shooting people... that's simply not true. I have a feeling you could really get behind a certain Assault rifle... an Olympic target pistol (under CA state law, they are considered Assault Rifles), these shoot low velocity .22 Caliber bullets that are designed for the sole purpose of punching a hole in a piece of paper, in terms of danger to human life they rank below a rock. They won't even break skin from more than a few feet away, let alone kill anyone or any thing.

Fact is, most kids who learn to shoot in a civilized nation do so for sport... it's target shooting, it's great fun, and a wonderful opportunity for children and their families to form loving memories that they will keep with them for the rest of their lives. My grandfather died when I was 12 years old, some of my fondest memories of him were from days we would spend at his friend's shooting range shooting at pop cans and clay pigeons with .22s and 4/10s.

Of the people I know, the ones who learned to shoot with their parents (usually their father), and did so on even a semi-regular basis, without fail, have had much healthier relationships with their families than those who didn't. The ones who did shoot never really went through a "wild teen" phase, have never had any serious trouble with the law, and never gotten into fist fights with their parents... each of those things has been done by at least one of my friends who has never held a gun. Does that prove anything? No, my sample size is far too small to prove anything, and my friends personalities are exceedingly varied, but I do find that clear break to be interesting.

The pictures you posted are all of children in war torn areas, they carry guns because that's just how it is there. Rather than focus on getting rid of the guns, perhaps the focus should be on eliminating the environment in which these children are forced to carry guns.

And yes, guns are used in crimes, but take a look at countries where guns aren't as prevalent, like say Britain, the same crimes are still commited, they just happen at knife point rather than gun point. The person commits the crime, the gun or knife just happen to be there. And personally, given the choice, I would much rather be shot to death than stabbed.

[painm8ker]

Is it just me or are about half of these pictures of children with TOY guns? That seems a little deceptive to mix them in like that. It would be like putting pictures of little girls with realistic looking dolls in an article about teen pregnancy. The talk about child soldiers like its a new concept is also deceptive, children have been fighting wars since they were invented. Its sucks, but all war sucks for everyone who is involved. Argue to end wars all together, not to make them more civilized or more tolerable by putting in "rules". The more horrible and terrible a war is and the more people who know about it the less likely we are to do it again.

That being said I will put out there that I think private gun ownership in the US should be illegal. There is just no reason for it. You are far more likely to kill yourself or a loved one then to defend your home. The argument about the constitution is just silly, its says "the right to bear arms" which does not mean the right to own any weapon I want and carry it when ever I want. I am an engineer and know how to make chemical weapons but I don't think anyone is comfortable with that. As for letting the kids use the guns I don't let my kids use the table saw and its a lot less dangerous then the 12 Gauge.

The developing world is another story, people there live by a set of rules so different then what we know in the US. Having to kill an animal so it doesn't eat your children is a reality in some parts of the world. Pirates, kidnappers, thieves, rapists, and murders who work with or sometimes for the police are real concepts in the developing world. Teaching a child to shoot in that world makes sense. Us judging those people for doing that and casting a disgusted look at the father teaching his kid to shoot in that world seems a little pompous and arrogant to me. That's why people in those countries hate Americans. We judge them and look down on them and don't understand them or their lives at all.

Bottom like guns are tools, if the benefit of having the tool out ways the danger you should have one, if not then don't. Sorry NRA guys you have to make the decision on a society wide basis not on an individual basis or it doesn't work.

[Posh]

We were taught 1st hand the danger of guns, what they should be used for ONLY and why.

What are they ONLY for exactly and why? That's my question to you.

I respect your opinion, but I have issue with this post because this is a watch forum. Not a social commentary forum, not a weapons forum, not a creepy artist forum, not a manbag forum. This is a watch forum.

I'll be the first to admit, in the past, I posted a few threads regarding off - topic subjects that I found interesting. However, what I realized, is that they were annoying. Although, well received, they were annoying because this is a watch forum.

I believe that we're surrounded by enough ****e on a daily basis. I don't want to visit the forum dedicated to my beloved hobby and see photos of kids holding weapons. That's not what this forum should be about.

This is a watch forum. Kyle

Thank you for respecting my stance on guns. Um, my section is about all things replica, as can clearly seen. I've talked about bags, cars, watches, shoes, clothes, travel, art, philanthropy AND my own thoughts and opinions, if feel like expressing them. Everyone is welcome to provide a counterpoint on or support of these opinions; I won't censor anybody because I don't like them or what they say. You probably were not here when I did a post to let people know what the section was for and what it would contain. Posh's section is exchange for ideas and learning.

Due to the largess of the site principals, I was given a great deal of latitude in what topics I wanted to present to the RG readers. If you don't like my social, education, art, relationship, etcetera commentary, by all means ignore it and focus on the replica topics. Or just ignore the whole section completely; that is the beauty of free will.

Nobody's putting a GUN to your head and telling you to read my articles.

I don't mind the images, either.

However, I feel compelled to note that Tori, despite the name of her song, was not held at gun point. She was threatened and held against her will with a knife.

Thanks you for clarifying. She has said that at that time she thought he had a gun when he threatened her until he produced the knife. After the event, she dreamt that it was a number of different weapons, including a gun, which is why she brings a number of weapons, real weapons including a real gun, into the performance of that song as Pip. Seeing Thelma & Louise, writing the song and afterward having sexual assualt victims tell her about their experiences at the end of guns and her position on guns, she has felt the title to be apt.

That's in part why I used the picture of her with the knife instead with other weapons.

More children robbed of childhood

It all depends on what you see as upsetting based on your value system.

Just stirring the pot. . .

(Stir. . .Stir. . .Stir. . .)

Guns make you feel powerful and for people with no power whatsoever, it can be a rush, even if you don't use the item in question for deciding if someone can can continue to live. The psychological component of being around a gun, holding gun, pointing a gun at something or someone, cannot be ignored. I held a $100,00 Purdey rifle in England which in addition to being as beautiful as any sculpture I've seen was also deadly. I find it very difficult to see a piece of art that also doubles as a thing that destroys a life; art was never meant for one living creature to kill another living creature.

If you're a weak, disenfranchised, ineffectual or scared person, having a gun, which gives you the ultimate power, which is the power over life and death, is a feeling that a lot of people actuallyy enjoy. That's scary to me. I would think hard before being around someone who enjoys owning lots of guns, holding guns, shooting guns and all that. I'm automatically wary of that person, which I don't forsee changing. And I don't mean an adult who sharpshoots or clay shoots; those people aren't shooting living things.

There is NO real need for any person in the civilized, Western world to know how to shoot or even own a gun. Let's be real, no one needs one. If you're not in the military, what's the reason? To shoot deer so they won't die? Because that's the argument you hear with hunters, the fact that deer won't have food because there will be too many of them going after what's available for them. We kill them so they won't die. I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my life. Also, nobody in the Western world is going rise up against the government so you can take that out of the equation. The government has done plenty of things to plenty of people in America and everybody sat on their hands took it.

I rushed him but I was sure to ask my friend to give me pictures from all over the world, every country is represented and I actually augmented the photos just now. I didn't have time to put them all in last night. So it's not just "infidel haters," it's every country in the world showing children having fun with real guns and fake guns, but you can't be sure who has the real guns and who has the fakes ones. This could easily be about parents but I'm talking about parents because some don't have any due to war or other variables. I guess you could say this is a photo essay of children, which embody life, hope and happiness, with guns, which embody death, destruction and despair.

A child should not have to think about their own mortality. I'm sure most kids wouldn't think about guns unless some adult, or adult-produced form of media, got them to think about it. Kids want to play with their friends an have fun, not learn to shoot or "respect" a Stayr-AUG. Children need to be children.

[Posh]

Is it just me or are about half of these pictures of children with TOY guns? That seems a little deceptive to mix them in like that. It would be like putting pictures of little girls with realistic looking dolls in an article about teen pregnancy. The talk about child soldiers like its a new concept is also deceptive, children have been fighting wars since they were invented. Its sucks, but all war sucks for everyone who is involved. Argue to end wars all together, not to make them more civilized or more tolerable by putting in "rules". The more horrible and terrible a war is and the more people who know about it the less likely we are to do it again.

That being said I will put out there that I think private gun ownership in the US should be illegal. There is just no reason for it. You are far more likely to kill yourself or a loved one then to defend your home. The argument about the constitution is just silly, its says "the right to bear arms" which does not mean the right to own any weapon I want and carry it when ever I want. I am an engineer and know how to make chemical weapons but I don't think anyone is comfortable with that. As for letting the kids use the guns I don't let my kids use the table saw and its a lot less dangerous then the 12 Gauge.

The developing world is another story, people there live by a set of rules so different then what we know in the US. Having to kill an animal so it doesn't eat your children is a reality in some parts of the world. Pirates, kidnappers, thieves, rapists, and murders who work with or sometimes for the police are real concepts in the developing world. Teaching a child to shoot in that world makes sense. Us judging those people for doing that and casting a disgusted look at the father teaching his kid to shoot in that world seems a little pompous and arrogant to me. That's why people in those countries hate Americans. We judge them and look down on them and don't understand them or their lives at all.

You know what? You make a terribly good point here. If a child needs to use a weapon in Darfur to keep keep herself or family members safe from "cleansed" or sexually assaulted, I would say go for it. But you run up against raiders who are many with better and more guns. But I do see what you mean here. I just wants kids to be able to be kids without having to deal adult realities. That's just what I feel.

There's plenty of time for gun play when you're an adult; Uncle Sam (and some mercenary companies) are giving people the chance to take the lives of other people with guns if they want it. So why not wait a few years?

[TTK]

these shoot low velocity .22 Caliber bullets that are designed for the sole purpose of punching a hole in a piece of paper, in terms of danger to human life they rank below a rock. They won't even break skin from more than a few feet away, let alone kill anyone or any thing.

Are you on medication....if not you should be....try whispering that in the ears of all the corpses that have been killed with a .22LR...yes ..on ocassion......even a pellet gun .22....!