Creation of "Sales section helpers"

[Drhulee]

Due to the increased load being put on admins and moderators, and because of the latest rash of scams/misrepresentations being discussed, may I suggest that the admins assign "sales section helper" status to some members. These members would have no official powers, and would only do the following:

- send PMs to admins/mods for posts that violate sales rules
- warn about missing tagged pics
- suggest posting better and clearer pics
- ask for more details, when they feel it is pertinent to full disclosure (maybe even "name the damned dealer!")
- clarify/verify certain aspects of the sale (e.g. is that really a Swiss movement, definitely not E.L. case, etc.)

And anything else you think maybe helpful.

Remember these members would not need any special privileges, and actually shouldn't have any - because they are just there to help. Any editing, moving, deleting or warnings should still be done by admins/mods.

When a mod or admin receives a PM from one of these "helpers" they will know to give it priority, as they've probably already done a lot of things the mod/admin would have done. This will cut down the workload on staff, and make the enforcement of rules more efficient, while ensuring that sales posts are not misleading and contain all info needed for someone to make an informed purchasing decision.

What do you think? And feel free (as if you wouldn't) to post some additional duties you believe may be useful.



NOTE: Please try not to derail this thread into a discussion of a particular scam or other method to prevent them.

[txcollector]

I second that. I believe this will help to cut down on undisclosed issues with the watches.

The sellers/buyers would also be aware of the designated sales helpers and any issues raised should be addressed otherwise the mod/admins would be involved and the thread even nuked.

This is probably a better alternative to summarily nuking the thread and gives the seller the opportunity to address the issues.

It will also help buyers as many many not be aware of issues that should be disclosed.

[Drhulee]

I just want to re-iterate that these helpers are only to make the sales posts more informative, to quickly flag suspect sales, and to take a load off the admins/mods. This will also help bring any suspect sales threads to the attention of admins a lot faster.

[gazumi]

Can't members already do this anyway without being assigned?

[unregistered]

Agreed. These guys should be be blamed for "calling out" pieces as well

[FiFi]

*ALL* members have been deputized to be sales section helpers.

When a member sees a thread that "just aint right", he can PM whichever moderator(s) are on-line at the moment the member sees the possible problem.

[FiFi]

Can't members already do this anyway without being assigned?

YES!!! Here's my main man with the master plan!

[Drhulee]

YES!!! Here's my main man with the master plan!

I'm sorry, I was going under the assumption that you received a ton of PMs already and it may help to be able to identify ones which may contain vetted information and therefore cut down on your workload. You have to realize, I'm going on the assumption here that admins/mods are quite busy as it is, and could use help. If you actually do have a lot of time on their hands, then you are right, no need for this at all.

Also having someone who has been designated by admins, will carry a little more weight than just any member posting. Eventually they may be given more powers, but in the short term it is not required.

[txcollector]

so should we have guidelines on what's considered ok to be discussed (like a non disclosure of an F caseback on a G PAM) and what's not (complaining about a non issue with a specific model - 10 position on the DSSD v5 bezel)?

We need a line of what's considered kosher on thread comments and what's thread crapping.

[Drhulee]

so should we have guidelines on what's considered ok to be discussed (like a non disclosure of an F caseback on a G PAM) and what's not (complaining about a non issue with a specific model - 10 position on the DSSD v5 bezel)?

We need a line of what's considered kosher on thread comments and what's thread crapping.

This is why not just any member would be assigned the duties. One who has shown to "thread crap" in the past, and doesn't have a good idea of what is acceptable is obviously not a good candidate for becoming an assigned "helper". Kind of the whole point of it being assigned by the admins/mods and not just having every member being a "helper", eh matt.

[nembo]

Guys, i will reiterate something, once again.
In light of recent happenings,we are currently working on a new set of sales guidelines and requirements.
While all suggestions are accepted and considered,at the moment we want to first work on the new and improved rules.
Please, feel free to contact any of us if you see the need ,as Matt stated previously and remember......Report a thread or a post if you think it needs our attention.
We appreciate the help,always.

[FiFi]

I'm sorry, I was going under the assumption that you received a ton of PMs already and it may help to be able to identify ones which may contain vetted information and therefore cut down on your workload. You have to realize, I'm going on the assumption here that admins/mods are quite busy as it is, and could use help. If you actually do have a lot of time on their hands, then you are right, no need for this at all.

Also having someone who has been designated by admins, will carry a little more weight than just any member posting. Eventually they may be given more powers, but in the short term it is not required.

Drh -- It's not that moderators are "busy"; the thing is moderators can't read every single thread/post made on repgeek. Each moderator has his own "favorite" forums in which he reads just about every thread/post, but there are probably some threads/posts that are never read by moderators. There aren't any "assigned" subforums that moderators are relegated to "police".

The problem of policing all of repgeek is this -- louisruby is in Australia, and narikaa is in the UK, but I believe the rest of the repgeek moderator team is in the USA. This means that between about midnight and 9am USA east coast time, louisruby is probably the only moderator online. From 9am to midnight USA east coast time, various moderators are on repgeek.

Also, all of the moderators are geeks, so we're looking at our favorite forums and reading/posting as regular members, too. Each moderator has his own "way of moderating", so not everyone is on repgeek "policing" while he's on the site. I cruise the sales sections at least once a day and read my PMs, which can number in the 20s each day, and also do my "regeek moderator" duty by reading non-Panerai related threads.

It's just a much more efficient way of policing ourselves if the membership PMs a moderator, lists a link to a "fishy" thread, regardless of what section the thread is in, and states why the moderator should look into the thread.

[Drhulee]

One more thing, I just read a post by QuickBrick mentioning that people should just hit the "report post" button. Well, being someone who hasn't really participated in any forums, it took me a while to locate that button (which I never knew existed). Perhaps this could be added to the rules with a pic showing where it actually is

[Drhulee]

Drh -- It's not that moderators are "busy"; the thing is moderators can't read every single thread/post made on repgeek. Each moderator has his own "favorite" forums in which he reads just about every thread/post, but there are probably some threads/posts that are never read by moderators. There aren't any "assigned" subforums that moderators are relegated to "police".

The problem of policing all of repgeek is this -- louisruby is in Australia, and narikaa is in the UK, but I believe the rest of the repgeek moderator team is in the USA. This means that between about midnight and 9am USA east coast time, louisruby is probably the only moderator online. From 9am to midnight USA east coast time, various moderators are on repgeek.

Also, all of the moderators are geeks, so we're looking at our favorite forums and reading/posting as regular members, too. Each moderator has his own "way of moderating", so not everyone is on repgeek "policing" while he's on the site. I cruise the sales sections at least once a day and read my PMs, which can number in the 20s each day, and also do my "regeek moderator" duty by reading non-Panerai related threads.

It's just a much more efficient way of policing ourselves if the membership PMs a moderator, lists a link to a "fishy" thread, regardless of what section the thread is in, and states why the moderator should look into the thread.

Mattuss, you've just provided a very good reason to implement my suggestion, and I'm surprised you haven't realized it. Please think about it for a moment - maybe re-read my suggestion.

[FiFi]

so should we have guidelines on what's considered ok to be discussed (like a non disclosure of an F caseback on a G PAM) and what's not (complaining about a non issue with a specific model - 10 position on the DSSD v5 bezel)?

We need a line of what's considered kosher on thread comments and what's thread crapping.

Seeing something that is not close to genuine specifications, such as an E caseback on a F model Panerai, isn't a "I think the seller is a scammer" type of post or PM a member should consider. Not every replica listed for sale is going to be a $1,500 replica, and therefore, the shortcomings of a watch should not be discussed, unless the seller advertises it as being "perfect".

What kind of posts/threads should a member PM a moderator about? Something like this...

Member "fartman" joined this month, you saw him post his first comment yesterday, and today, you see his post count is 348. And then you see that he has listed 3 watches for sale. This is something you should report to a moderator.

This is an instance where you shouldn't PM a moderator...

Member "queefbird" joined this month, you haven't noticed him being a post whore, his previous posts are more than "nice watch", and he lists one watch for sale, but the watch has a sh!tty crown guard.

In the last example, if there's nothing that makes you think he is attempting to sell the watch as "the best PAM available" or that he has artificially boosted his post count, and his asking price is in line with what the watch is worth, leave the thread alone. If you feel compelled, PM him and tell him his CG is the sh!ttiest thing you've ever seen.

What we're looking for is for your help in identifying SCAMS, fellas.

[SFA437]

I spend a lot of time in Off Topic and browsing Breitling, Panerai, Vintage and Omega.

You'll never see me in Rolex

The point being if you see people going postal, hinky sales threads, making personal attacks or being insulting (without adding a or afterwards) let us know via PM.

New sales rules are forthcoming and they will be considerably more restrictive in order to protect our membership but the whole lot of you are needed to assist us in nabbing the bad guys.

You're the concerned citizens calling the cops and keeping an eye on things until we show up. Your help is ALWAYS appreciated and TBH I'd rather have 20 PMs that turn out to be nothing than not get one and have it turn into silversx.

Also in addition to hitting "Report Post" kick out a PM to one of us- sometimes we'll catch a PM prior to finding out about a reported post

[FiFi]

Mattuss, you've just provided a very good reason to implement my suggestion, and I'm surprised you haven't realized it. Please think about it for a moment - maybe re-read my suggestion.

But why does there need to be a "helper" assignation? I think if members PM moderators about "fishy" sales threads or "fishy" activity by a member, the "fishy" situation will be addressed.

[boffman]

I'd personally like to welcome fartman and queefbird to RG.

[Drhulee]

Agreed. These guys should be be blamed for "calling out" pieces as well

??? I think you meant "should NOT be" Which is another reason why not just any member will do.

[Drhulee]

But why does there need to be a "helper" assignation? I think if members PM moderators about "fishy" sales threads or "fishy" activity by a member, the "fishy" situation will be addressed.

Because the poster of the sales thread will then be aware that his thread may be under scrutiny. And a member will more likely respond to someone with some kind of assigned authority. Plus it give the post a little more weight. Plus the designated helper won't be intimidated by any "thread crapper" accusations. Plus it gives the mod and idea of what a post is about just by recognizing the name (sorry I didn't realize you don't get that many PMs, I often get 20 or more, and I hardly ever sell anything ). Plus, plus, plus. Sorry, I'm off for a bit.

[FiFi]

A new sales sticky has been made here:

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=94391

No one is able to post in the thread, but please PM me with information you think would be helpful.

[FiFi]

Because the poster of the sales thread will then be aware that his thread may be under scrutiny. And a member will more likely respond to someone with some kind of assigned authority. Plus it give the post a little more weight. Plus the designated helper won't be intimidated by any "thread crapper" accusations. Plus it gives the mod and idea of what a post is about just by recognizing the name (sorry I didn't realize you don't get that many PMs, I often get 20 or more, and I hardly ever sell anything ). Plus, plus, plus. Sorry, I'm off for a bit.

But by *any* member PM'ing a moderator about a "fishy" sales thread, it will be scrutinized.

I don't ignore PMs, and I doubt other moderators do, so *any* PM advising of a possible scam sales thread will be vetted thoroughly.

When I get a PM about a possible scam sales thread, I review the seller's posting history, IP address, previous sales (if any), and it takes less than 2 minutes. I receive PMs immediately, so I read them almost instantaneously.

[Drhulee]

But by *any* member PM'ing a moderator about a "fishy" sales thread, it will be scrutinized.

I don't ignore PMs, and I doubt other moderators do, so *any* PM advising of a possible scam sales thread will be vetted thoroughly.

When I get a PM about a possible scam sales thread, I review the seller's posting history, IP address, previous sales (if any), and it takes less than 2 minutes. I receive PMs immediately, so I read them almost instantaneously.

My mistake then, I really was under the impression that moderators and admins received hundreds of PMs every few hours. And since it often takes me a while to read, review, respond, etc. to the 20 or so I often get, I believed this to be a time saver and quite useful for you guys.

However, I should point out that the helpers are not just there for finding scams, but also there to keep the seller honest and to cut down on poorly listed threads, in which the watch may have a problem that is not obvious to newer members. Which is another reason the status is assigned and not just every member would be one.

[txcollector]

Seeing something that is not close to genuine specifications, such as an E caseback on a F model Panerai, isn't a "I think the seller is a scammer" type of post or PM a member should consider. Not every replica listed for sale is going to be a $1,500 replica, and therefore, the shortcomings of a watch should not be discussed, unless the seller advertises it as being "perfect".

That's a gray area that I'd like some clarification (maybe a few use cases on the guidelines)

If somebody lists an ultimate and you notice the caseback, case, CG, etc. are not ultimate do you call it?

Or if they are selling a $200 rep and asking $350 with clever marketing?

Or when somebody asks a question about lume, or movement and the seller is evasive or untruthful with the answer?

[Drhulee]

That's a gray area that I'd like some clarification (maybe a few use cases on the guidelines)

If somebody lists an ultimate and you notice the caseback, case, CG, etc. are not ultimate do you call it?

Or if they are selling a $200 rep and asking $350 with clever marketing?

Or when somebody asks a question about lume, or movement and the seller is evasive or untruthful with the answer?

Exactly, they're still scamming just at a different level, and probably justifying it to themselves in their own mind. When someone starts to say "well the buyer should have known", that is a sure sign of someone more than willing to try to pull something over and the trying to make it seem a "small thing" or maybe laugh about it. Someone like this may eventually try to pull off a much bigger scam, and won't care if you're his brother, mother or grand mother.

And the above described "helpers" will help sort out the ones who've simply made a mistake from the ones trying to pull something on an unsuspecting member.