Since PP gifts aren't actually banned ...

[Drhulee]

I hesitated in posting on a sales thread that wanted funds sent as "PP gift". I'm sure the seller just hadn't read the new guidelines, as he violated some other rules, but I felt the urge to let him know.

Well, immediately after my critical post, another member scolded me for adding the comment.

As this (suggesting not using PP gift) is a grey area for many, may I suggest that if we come along such a sales thread, that we simply post something like this:

"I notice you are asking the buyer to 'PP as gift' for your sale. Did you know that the Admins will recommend potential buyers not to buy from you, if they are asked?"

Would that be a more diplomatic "notice" of the new guideline, which wouldn't evoke a negative response from other members? It notifies the seller of the new policy, and warns any potential buyer that there may be some risks in buying from this member this way.

[Dave123]

Whatever happened to saying its a video game purchase or an old laptop?....

Man why not say its a watch?...maybe an expensive Timex?...if the seller/buyer is going to screw you,from this forum,it doesnt matter what you put..really.

Trust is trust,make sure you have it first.

[opawlows]

I dont quite understand it either why many members are still asking for payment by way of PP Gift.
Maybe next time just post a link to the thread about the new sales policies/guidelines?

[Drhulee]

Whatever happened to saying its a video game purchase or an old laptop?....

Man why not say its a watch?...maybe an expensive Timex?...if the seller/buyer is going to screw you,from this forum,it doesnt matter what you put..really.

Trust is trust,make sure you have it first.

Not sure what this has to do with my suggestion.

I dont quite understand it either why many members are still asking for payment by way of PP Gift.
Maybe next time just post a link to the thread about the new sales policies/guidelines?

Well it isn't actually forbidden, just recommended that buyers who are asked to use it "move along."

[Guanaco]

Is it really so damn hard to simply include the PP fee within the price? Same crap except you're able to start a claim.

I'm against PP as gift.

[W4R]

I am 100% with you Drhulee.

and besides no one has right to scold anyone for pointing out rules or making things much clear

You posted that in that thread in case that deal would go wrong we can always say you were warned.

[Dave123]

Not sure what this has to do with my suggestion.

Guess i dont get the question.

Back when sales on rep forums were many times what they are today, we did things as i posted,very simple.

Are simpletons making things hard for you of late?...

If this is the norm. these days,come on guys.

[Drhulee]

Guess i dont get the question.

Back when sales on rep forums were many times what they are today, we did things as i posted,very simple.

Are simpletons making things hard for you of late?...

If this is the norm. these days,come on guys.

Well I don't live in the past, and I'm trying to make the best out of the current guidelines, while helping out other members. And no, you aren't making things hard for me at all

[pjl]

It's about time, pp gift, I always laughed when I saw a seller request this. license to be dishonest,

[realreplica]

Honestly I don't see the reason to post on a thread where the seller asks payment as gift.
It is the duty of the buyer to be aware that the payment as gift has risks and he will not be able to open a dispute or ask for a refund from PP for a gift payment. This is stated repeatedly in many areas of the forums and if you don't read it then its your problem really.
I understand that you're only trying to look after newer members that might have not read the recommendations of the admin team but also some sellers might not see a post like that very well, perhaps instead of posting it in the open a PM to the seller recommending that he changes his payment method might work better. Not sure.

I recently bought a bracelet from a trusted member and he requested the payment to be sent as gift over PM, as I stated on the thread that started this all I will not accept any more payments as gift on my sales nor will I pay as gift to anyone no matter what their feedback is. I kindly told the seller that I would pay the 4% fees and pay it as goods instead of gift to what he agreed.

[xsb00st]

Whenever I see a PP gift only option sale, I immediately click "back" on my browser; or if I truly want the watch, I PM the seller that I'm willing to pay the asking price but as a PP sale. It just gives me peace of mind knowing I can dispute a charge, if need be... knock on wood.

[Drhulee]

It's about time, pp gift, I always laughed when I saw a seller request this. license to be dishonest,

Nah, even I've requested it in the past. But at the time I really had no idea of what using it meant, but now that a lot more is known about it, I don't see the point of using it, unless you want to remove some of the safety net from your potential customers.

[RWS]

Wow guys, I could hide and run away and hope nobody notices me,
but I have to be honest, I am totally guilty of this!

I had no idea it was an issue. I have sold probably 30 pieces
and had payment as a gift almost every time.
Not one person said anything to me or commented about it.

I will totally refrain from doing it from now onwards.
I hope nobody thought badly of me for doing it?
Is ignorance an excuse in this instance? lol

So do you still think that asking a buyer privately to pay as a gift
is uncool? Surely with an excellent feedback rating and
reputation in the forum its not a big deal? What about giving
the buyer the option to pay the fees or pay as a gift?

Its not really about the money to be honest. I just don't like
giving Paypal the money. I have an online business and they
get enough form me

[trevor2079]

If the seller asked for the payment to be a gift, just say you'll pay the paypal fees for the added security. It's up to the buyer whether or not he wishes to do business with someone who only accepts paypal as a gift.

[meatwad]

Let my story serve as the biggest reason not to use PP as a gift. I got every dime of my money back which would have NOT been the case if I gifted. As we commonly police each other (hell look what sparta did to sh1tlingtim), your post was not uncalled for. Ignore the angst of some as there are people who always think they are right. I also agree that the policy should remain a suggestion and its up to the individual to be as carefree with their own cash as they wish. They just give up the right to b1tch if they did something they were warned not to do.

. . . . . And that's all I have to say about that

[realreplica]

It's about time, pp gift, I always laughed when I saw a seller request this. license to be dishonest,

Not necessarily I think the PP gift option in the majority of cases is a "softer" way of saying you pay the fees, or was intended as such. I've sold items paid as gift and never have I had any problems with the buyers. The vast majority of the members in this forum are honest and trustworthy though with the increase in value of some replica watches the prospect of higher profits has attracted some scammers into our ranks.
The best thing to do is to buy the seller instead of the watch, make sure you trust who you're buying from and obviously take as many safeguards as you can especially if you're dealing with a particular seller for the first time. I'm sure that someone that is a honest seller will tell you that there's no problem with paying as goods if you add the fees, a scammer might on the other hand insist on gift payment and then you should back off from that buy.

This is an issue that is widespread over almost every watch forum on the net, its not a repgeek issue and there's plenty of information regarding the do's and don'ts of buying online and the advantages and disadvantages of the payment methods and particularly paypal. If you pay as gift, it is a gift, you have no safeguards, point! If something goes wrong you're on your own, as stated by the admins here they will assist you in what they can regarding registration e-mail address and IP address(es) used by the "scammer" but in regards to paypal there's nothing you can do.

[louisruby]

the reason pp as gift is not endosed by the staff is because there is no recourse for the seller to file a dispute if gift payment was used - so if you are scammed, that's all folks.

Sellers can still ask, but we would suggest you would only buy if you have complete faith in the seller.

We will not step in if this payment is used and there is a dispute.

I would simply suggest the seller adds a few bucks to the price instead and makes an inclusive price - really, not much is being saved.

I have also heard of ppal making enquiries into accounts that frequently use gift as payment.

[Drhulee]

Honestly I don't see the reason to post on a thread where the seller asks payment as gift.
It is the duty of the buyer to be aware that the payment as gift has risks and he will not be able to open a dispute or ask for a refund from PP for a gift payment. This is stated repeatedly in many areas of the forums and if you don't read it then its your problem really.
I understand that you're only trying to look after newer members that might have not read the recommendations of the admin team but also some sellers might not see a post like that very well, perhaps instead of posting it in the open a PM to the seller recommending that he changes his payment method might work better. Not sure.

I recently bought a bracelet from a trusted member and he requested the payment to be sent as gift over PM, as I stated on the thread that started this all I will not accept any more payments as gift on my sales nor will I pay as gift to anyone no matter what their feedback is. I kindly told the seller that I would pay the 4% fees and pay it as goods instead of gift to what he agreed.

Because I think we should discourage its use, and this would be a very diplomatic way of doing so, while educating those who may have simply been unaware of the policy. Of course the seller and potential buyers can just ignore the comment, that's up to them.

[realreplica]

Wow guys, I could hide and run away and hope nobody notices me,
but I have to be honest, I am totally guilty of this!

I had no idea it was an issue. I have sold probably 30 pieces
and had payment as a gift almost every time.
Not one person said anything to me or commented about it.

I will totally refrain from doing it from now onwards.
I hope nobody thought badly of me for doing it?
Is ignorance an excuse in this instance? lol

So do you still think that asking a buyer privately to pay as a gift
is uncool? Surely with an excellent feedback rating and
reputation in the forum its not a big deal? What about giving
the buyer the option to pay the fees or pay as a gift?

Its not really about the money to be honest. I just don't like
giving pp the money. I have an online business and they
get enough form me

I'm thinking that you as many (including myself) were only saying (although by different words) that the buyer would assume the fees, and I'm also sure that if on any of those sales you mention the buyer would have said that he would preffer to take the fees and pay as goods you would also have taken that option with no problems. You as the majority of the sellers here are honest members that accurately describe what they are selling and have no intention of deceiving or scamming anyone.
I'm sure that anyone that has seen your sales threads, dealt with you, or know you from the forums has no doubts towards your integrity as a seller.

[Dave123]

Well I don't live in the past, and I'm trying to make the best out of the current guidelines, while helping out other members. And no, you aren't making things hard for me at all

I guess not.

There was a time when Stan (WBK),Ruby,Josh,Trevor,Sead even (RG days,whats happened to him lately?)

They would post sales on a daily basis,many more dealers as well,i just mention a few.

The only scammers we had to worry about was the owner (s) of RWI,a different setup but frankly,the largest sales forum for members,you put up watches,bought as i posted above,simple. The sales forum they had for members made the sales forum here look like a night full of crickets. It was huge and mainly,problem free. There was the odd guy,but for the volume it was nothing,dealers and members selling freely,now it seems complicated.

Sorry man,i know you get offended by my posts and i dont post often anymore,but a whole new breed and i guess i see why our dealers dont post much anymore and our old members look in the background while you guys figure out how to deal with each other these days....

[realreplica]

Because I think we should discourage its use, and this would be a very diplomatic way of doing so, while educating those who may have simply been unaware of the policy. Of course the seller and potential buyers can just ignore the comment, that's up to them.

I totally understand your point and as you might have noticed I don't sell or buy anything anymore to be paid as gift unless the buyer insists on paying that way (but why would they?).
I understand and agree with what you say, my only question is as to how some sellers will see something like that being posted by someone else on a sales thread. Obviously it will benefit newer members to know that but on the other hand it might look like you or the person making the comment might have some reasons not to totally trust the seller.

[realreplica]

The only scammers we had to worry about was the owner (s) of RWI,a different setup but frankly,the largest sales forum for members,you put up watches,bought as i posted above,simple. The sales forum they had for members made the sales forum here look like a night full of crickets. It was huge and mainly,problem free. There was the odd guy,but for the volume it was nothing,dealers and members selling freely,now it seems complicated.

Sorry man,i know you get offended by my posts and i dont post often anymore,but a whole new breed and i guess i see why our dealers dont post much anymore and our old members look in the background while you guys figure out how to deal with each other these days....

I think times have changed and as I said before the increase in price of the replica watches have probably brought some "undesirable" members to this and other communities, this is not a RG problem it is a general problem. People are more trusty of paying online and as it becomes widespread, easier and more and more routine people drop some of the safeguards and scammers take advantage.
It is also different to have a trade section in a forum with 5k members than in RG that has 25k so imho rules also need to be adapted to that new reality.

[meatwad]

"Sorry man,i know you get offended by my posts and i dont post often anymore,but a whole new breed and i guess i see why our dealers dont post much anymore and our old members look in the background while you guys figure out how to deal with each other these days...."

Very eloquent and understandable. I have not been here that long, but have spent enough geek hours to completely understand that statement. Think I will go drink one for my hommies now

[Drhulee]

I guess not.

There was a time when Stan (WBK),Ruby,Josh,Trevor,Sead even (RG days,whats happened to him lately?)

They would post sales on a daily basis,many more dealers as well,i just mention a few.

The only scammers we had to worry about was the owner (s) of RWI,a different setup but frankly,the largest sales forum for members,you put up watches,bought as i posted above,simple. The sales forum they had for members made the sales forum here look like a night full of crickets. It was huge and mainly,problem free. There was the odd guy,but for the volume it was nothing,dealers and members selling freely,now it seems complicated.

Sorry man,i know you get offended by my posts and i dont post often anymore,but a whole new breed and i guess i see why our dealers dont post much anymore and our old members look in the background while you guys figure out how to deal with each other these days....

I don't get offended with your posts Dave, just not sure why you keep dwelling in the past. As the board gets more traffic and becomes less of a "group of few", it will be used more by unscrupulous members for their own profit and misdeeds. We're just trying to cut down on this happening before it gets out of hand, while not scaring off people from participating in the sales areas.

As for older members just staying in the background, I've only been a member here since May '09, and all the members whose posts I followed back then are still actively posting - well except for one or two who have been banned, but suspect they're probably back under different usernames

[Dave123]

I don't get offended with your posts Dave, just not sure why you keep dwelling in the past. As the board gets more traffic and becomes less of a "group of few", it will be used more by unscrupulous members for their own profit and misdeeds. We're just trying to cut down on this happening before it gets out of hand, while not scaring off people from participating in the sales areas.

As for older members just staying in the background, I've only been a member here since May '09, and all the members whose posts I followed back then are still actively posting - well except for one or two who have been banned, but suspect they're probably back under different usernames

They are more of a 'group of few' actually. 1-20,000 left long ago,you missed it. Thats what i'm trying to say.

But you are right,you are fighting the good fight.

Just be carefull guys,buy and sell from the trusted,and trusted by yourself,nobody else,and by your rules. That seems to be the way it is today.

Good luck.